Bulldozer Rams Into Cars, Bus in Jerusalem; At Least 2 Killed

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by northy124, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. northy124 macrumors 68020

    northy124

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    #1
    I assume this is the right place to post this and I didn't see anyone else post it so I thought I would.

    Bulldozer Rams Into Cars, Bus in Jerusalem; At Least 2 Killed
    I don't know what to say to be honest it is just shocking that people go this far to hurt innocent people, I mean this crap between Israel and Palestine should be sorted peacefully and soon as well Palestine was there first and there land was taken from them, People need to learn to live together no matter what race, religion or what not.

    What is everyone else's view on what happened this morning (UK Time)?

    Pictures: [​IMG][​IMG]

    Sorry that this is from FOXnews but I couldn't get Skynews to open for me.
     
  2. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #2
    People need to learn to grow up.

    So what? 3 people died today, and I'm sure another 3 people will die soon enough. It's been going on entirely too long, and they all need to wake up and realize that unless they actually try to change the situation*, nothing's going to change.

    *yes, I understand that this is near impossible.
     
  3. northy124 thread starter macrumors 68020

    northy124

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    #3
    A better pic of the scene: [​IMG]
    The Skynews page about it is HERE, I find them more informative that Fox.

    What do they accomplish from doing this? Nothing just more unrest:(.
     
  4. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #4
    Dismissing 60 years of occupation as 'crap' an indication of how much you know about this subject.

    Well, thanks for that little pearl of wisdom. Why didn't someone else think of that.

    I'm guessing that you'll be happy to give your home, land and work up so that somebody else can come and take it from you whilst you can see them from your refugee camp?

    No?
     
  5. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #5
    Not sure why the police decided to kill the guy - from the BBC video it looks like you have a bunch of police running around with weapons drawn, they struggle with the driver and then shoot him at close range.

    I suppose they killed him because they were worried that he had a weapon (or bomb). However, if that was the case, why did they get close enough to struggle with him? A tragedy either way.
     
  6. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #6
    IDF/Police standard practice. Shoot and make sure suspect is dead first, then ask questions.
     
  7. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #7
    Fixed that for you.
     
  8. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #8
    Ummm.... no. But lets just agree to disagree.
     
  9. northy124 thread starter macrumors 68020

    northy124

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    #9
    Um yh I agree with iShater they aren't all like that (Palestinian Authority are though:rolleyes:).
     
  10. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #10
    I didn't want to take the thread off topic, but I am surprised that he was surprised at what he saw. We have seen that on TV many times, and with the death squads going after wanted people to take them out vs. arrest them, it comes as no surprise that the culprit was shot.

    Anyhow. It will be interesting to see what this might lead to. The whole region is a ticking bomb right now, especially Gaza.
     
  11. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #11
    Sorry, I can't let you off that easy.;)

    Make no mistake, I am no apologist for the Israelis. I am an opponent of the USA's carte blanche approach to Israel in terms of financial and political support. I also think that they tend to use excessive force against their neighbors. I have no desire to see my tax dollars generously support their military and defense businesses.

    BUT I think your statement singled out the Israelis unjustly. Until everybody in Palestine/Israel takes responsibility for the situation nothing is going to change.

    I am close friends with several Middle Easterners and I can assure you that shoot first/ask questions later is very much in force in places like Egypt and Lebanon. The Israelis are BY NO MEANS alone in the excessive application of force by law enforcement.

    I wasn't surprised so much as a little puzzled. He was shot after tussling with police; usually if the Israelis are going to shoot somebody they get on with it rather than bothering to fight with them first.

    It's been a ticking time bomb ever since the WWII Iraqi campaign...and will stay that way as long as the oil remains.
     
  12. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #12
    Didn't want to stir the pot/hi-jack the thread ;)

    Your surprise was regarding a behavior of the Israeli police, so my initial response was right on target. When you "fixed" my comment is when we expanded the discussion. AFAIK, none of the other groups you mentioned is
    1) A real police force
    2) Is backed by a state
    3) Has the training/weaponry/logistic to run an organized police force.
    4) None pretend to be democratic/law-abiding/etc.

    Egypt/Lebanon were not part of the discussion, but in the case of Lebanon I believe the Lebanese government is one of the better ones out there. Egypt has an abysmal record of human rights that it is not even worth discussing the security apparatus there. However, none of the "other" examples you have mentioned has even come close to using the excessive application of force by "law enforcement", but I don't want to expand beyond police. Cause that is a bigger discussion. They might round up people, but God knows what happens in everybody's jails. :(


    From what I saw on TV, read in the news over the years, there are MANY cases caught on international press TV where suspects where beaten or shot not only after a tussle with the police/IDF, but after being arrested. With the current rules of engagement, I am not surprised. You only have to look back at the Israeli Arab demonstrators that were killed a couple of years back by riot police to see how things have changed.

    Unfortunately I think it is more than oil. The core of the problems, are in the areas where there is no significant oil. It has been land, land, and land. Check out www.antiwar.com for the article about Zionism and the transfer of the local population. I was very surprised to actually find someone writing about it. Israel&Palestine Section

    Not sure how much reading you do about the area, but checkout the books by Robert Fisk. You know a person is right on target when both sides are not fond of him/her. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #13
    Fair enough - my point is mainly that Israel's police are by no means alone in this behavior in the middle east. Some of the more affluent countries doubtless have a high-quality police force even by international standards, but many of them do not. The Palestinian Authority have a de facto police force, though it is more of a police militia due to its size.

    Egypt is worse than Israel in this regard. Their police have broad powers and it is most definitely a case of "shoot first, ask questions later". Not to mention the morality police.

    I won't derail this discussion any further...I just felt like you were pulling Israel's police force out of context a bit, though I totally agree they are unnecessarily violent.
     

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