Bush exempts US Navy from Whale protection order

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Queso, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Queso macrumors G4

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    #1
    From All Headline News

    Well there you go. Yet more proof (as if it were needed) of just what a piece of **** Bush is, and once again it's all in the name of National Security :rolleyes:
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    Bush seems intent upon provoking Constitutional showdowns. I guess since the Legislative Branch won't put up a fight, he's going after the Judicial Branch now...
     
  3. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I'm a little bit confused how does sonar cause damage?
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    Link
     
  5. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #5
    Whales, dolphins and other marine creatures have their own organic version of sonar which they use to hunt and find each other. Mechanical sonar is at a much greater volume and effectively deafens the creatures' own senses, to the point where a lot of them do actually lose the ability. The US Navy is currently testing sonar of even greater volume as it covers a greater distance, meaning even more creatures that depend on it will be killed as a result.
     
  6. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #6
    Maybe the whales will learn to steer clear of our fleets. I though they were supposed to be intelligent.

    Perhaps they should swing over past Japan. I understand they don't use sonar against them there. They use harpoons.
     
  7. Bogie macrumors regular

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    #7
    wait, so you're telling me we really can nuke the whales now?
     
  8. David G. macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Nuke the whales, save the plankton! (I kid, I kid)
     
  9. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #9
    Yeah, nothing like invading a creatures natural habitat and completely destroying it's way of life so the navy can kill things better.
     
  10. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #10
    Good thing you know so much about mid-frequency sonar, wave propagation, and whales. :rolleyes:

    The reality is the animals inhabit a certain habitat and that the subs are moving through these habits all the while sending out a significant burst of energy that propagates with only moderate attenuation out to 10Km. These energy is capable of creating brain lesions, screwing up the whales navigation (both depth and direction), and other notable effects.
    Sonar, especially mid-frequency sonar, is dangerous at close-range which is also why the Navy specifically prohibits divers from operating near subs when they're using their sonar.

    This is a serious problem for both the whales and the Navy, and up until now the Navy has been working with a number of companies and research institutes to understand how sonar affects whales and why, but also how to mitigate the effects. This move appears to reverse this useful policy.
     
  11. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #11
    Along with every other creature which might depend upon the whales. Ecosystems are delicate things.

    I'm certain Bush thoroughly weighed these factors before arriving at his decision.
     
  12. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #12
    I love it. Now you even believe passive cetacea are just playing the victim card :rolleyes:

    Do you not see the hypocrisy in the West criticising Japan for its whaling fleets whilst killing whales in massive numbers by another method?

    No, I guess you probably don't.
     
  13. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #13
    I have yet to hear a word about other Subs from other countrys. What about all those other submarines from so many other countrys and they all are doing the same?. I cant fault our navy when there are so many nations all doing the same and for the record most subs dont broadcast their locations by active pinging.
     
  14. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #14
    It's the new mid-frequency long-range sonars that are the problem. So far it only seems to be the US and Chinese that are using them, although the Russians appear to be trying to catch up. But you're right. ANY country that starts using these systems needs to be pulled up on it. How dead do the oceans have to be before the politicians get together to end this particular arms race with a by then worthless treaty? They need to sit round the table now.
     
  15. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #15
    Tu quoque.

    For the record they probably are when they are doing sonar exercises. First line of the article.
     
  16. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #16
    Well, I for one don't want to see a technology that can protect our fleets against our enemies being off limits. It's certainly not off limits to our enemies.
     
  17. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #17
    So, you must be willing to have a few hundred thousand tons of whale carcasses littering your back yard then!
     
  18. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #18
    I'm not a sonar type, and I've not read the briefs in the case, but it seems hard to believe that having to test sonar more than 12 miles from the coast would harm our ability to test it.
     
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #19
    This is a strawman.

    The Navy has been able to test mid-frequency sonar systems, but there were restrictions on where and when they could do it. The Navy has never been happy with these restrictions, but was willing to comply with the order, and has a lab in San Diego that was working with several research institutions to figure out how to mitigate the effects of sonar.
     
  20. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #20
    you mean "paying for cleaning up those dead whale corpses with tax money" ;)
     

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