But seriously, spec's aside MBP's/MBA's have little or no competition ...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by entatlrg, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. entatlrg macrumors 68040


    Mar 2, 2009
    Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
    ... now hear me out here :) - I did say "spec's aside"

    I'm talking about 'user experience'... the day to day use of your laptop ... such typing on the keyboard, screen quality, weight, ports, port placement, handling/carrying, solid/build quality how it is to handle/carry everyday...

    There's nothing out there, in our continuous search for quality laptop's with good screens, keyboards, low maintenance etc we can't find anything other than Macs?

    We've had Latitudes, Thinkpad's, x301, some Sony Z's and don't think any of them are as nice or nicer to work on than a MacBook Pro or Air.

    All we've tried seem to have one or more major flaw that makes the machine unpleasant to use ... with the Thinkpad's great keyboards sure, but their screens absolutely suck, who wants to stare at that all day compared to a MBP.

    The Latitudes, we had three major dislikes, screen quality, build quality and soft/cheap feeling keyboard - sure not what Dell used to be like.

    Then the Sony Z's excellent screen but squatty 13.1" you loose needed vertical resolution so it means more scrolling, the Z's keyboard is fair/good but it has sharp edges on the keys, they where hot and noisy too, at least the current Z's on the market are that way.

    What Windows laptop 13 or 15" genuinely competes with the MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air? That's an honest question, not sarcastic.

    Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I don't know of a Windows laptop that's a pleasure to use. I walk by them in stores ... all their all fancy colors with wierd designs/stickers on them, like flowers, bubbles it's too much man, I can't get out of the Window's laptops aisle fast enough, lol :D
  2. kny3twalker macrumors 65816


    Oct 25, 2009
    The new thinkpad t510 and w510 have the option of an IPS display. And what about the HP Elitebooks?
    I would like to hear you think these and the new Sony Z will compare since you sound to have experience with quite a few different brands and models of laptops.
  3. MrCheeto macrumors 68030


    Nov 2, 2008
    I knew what this was like when I reluctantly bought my first mac.

    Man, looking at how I used to shop, I feel like an idiot. Which computer has the biggest screen and coolest features...hm..this one has a 15" and little touch controls for media...and lightscribe! Wow! I'll never use that but it's good to have!

    I never thought that most of the 15" then were cheap 1280x800, thus not offering ANYTHING over a 13" display of the same resolution. I honestly feel sorry for the way computer companies thrive on idiots with such tactics and gimmicks as colorful LED buttons.

    Not to mention the big "Japanese car" computers. You know what I'm talking about, you see them being carried around by the guy with the faux-hock and tattoo bracelet with a shark-tooth necklace. But it's ok, I feel better knowing he just dumped his money on a load of squat and is about to get the headache of his life.

    I almost puke when I see that thing. It had a 3-year old processor, SINGLE CORE, mind you, and was selling for more than most Intel Core 2 Duos...chumps.

    All well, when you think about it, we're just ***holes. I mean, WE know about computers and what makes a good one, so we look down on ANYBODY that doesn't. It reminds me of when I went to a gun store and asked for some ammo. I asked to see a round from a brand I never heard of, the guy asked why. I said "the first signs of quality are in the rounds themself" and he chuckled and said "right" and handed me a round and continued to belittle me "what are you, a cop? No? Then how would you know anything about that? You shoot a lot or just read a lot?" I would have smacked his twiggy pony-tail wearing hippie *** in the face if he hadn't been working at a gun store, and come to think of it, I should have wagered him the cost of ammo and firing range time on a paper target shootout, because I know that I could put more rounds on target faster than his stuck up know-it-all *** any day. As well, I do happen to KNOW for a fact that bad quality rounds are immediately identifiable, just open up a box of American Eagle or Blazer.

    Anyway, most people that use computers just use them to compliment the other aspects of their life. They visit their friend's facebook, take and send nude pictures, torrent music, download viruses and watch T-Pain on YouTube. You know exactly who I'm talking about, they have LimeWire installed on their desktop (with 200 other icons) and search "Lil Wayne *** a **** with a **** ** *" and click on the first result that says "Lil Wayne *** a **** with a **** ** *" not knowing it's a repeat server that mirrors what they say and turns out to be pr0n or malicious software.

    As well, there are people that buy computers based on looks and DO go for Apple. I would know because I've found plenty of users that treat MacOS as if it IS Windows and expect it to be so. I can't count the number of people that brought me their Mac with icons and files STREWN throughout the system, costing GIGS AND GIGS of wasted space and an unimaginable headache. The kind that can only find a particular file the first time they use it, but have no idea where it is unless they put it on the desktop, and believe me, they do just that. I've come across Macs that have SO MANY icons on the desktop I honestly, HONESTLY, could not see the wallpaper...

    So in summation, we just act holier-than-thou because we know something they don't. I've learned to respect people for not knowing everything I know and am CERTAIN never to talk down to anybody because who needs a 13-year-old standing over them and dictating? They're not idiots, they just don't care, and have a right to do so.

    Rant juice low, time for more Dew, ciao!
  4. ae3265 macrumors member

    Feb 3, 2009
    Add a hard ethernet port and 4gb (minimum) ram to the MBA and I'm sold. That would be a perfect travel system. I could prolly make due with a USB ethernet, but the extra RAM is a must for me.

    I might need to up the size of the SSD as well, hafta think about that.

    As it is, lugging around the 17" isn't that bad.
  5. 6-0 Prolene macrumors 6502

    Feb 11, 2010
    Oh dear.
  6. chill. macrumors 6502

    Sep 1, 2008
    keyboard: i actually type a bit slower on chiclet keyboards. i'm really not sure why the chiclet style is hyped so much, i like the stiffness and lack of flex, but it comes at a cost of usability. i type a lot faster on my flexing dell keyboard

    screen quality: average amongst laptops, really nothing exceptional

    weight: good, but it could be a lot lighter if it were plastic instead of aluminum. other laptops of comparable size are much lighter

    ports: horrible, very very few ports compared to other laptops

    port placement: fine/nothing special

    handling/carrying: good

    build quality: good

    hp's envy series, lenovo thinkpad, and sony vaio are all laptops that i would say are comparable, better in some aspects, worse in others, etc.
  7. entatlrg thread starter macrumors 68040


    Mar 2, 2009
    Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
    Wish our experience was the same, it isn't.

    Great posts above, rockin' thread, lol.
  8. ae3265 macrumors member

    Feb 3, 2009

    Not gonna even thing about trying to do a jumpstart install over wireless...100mb Ethernet over USB would be better.

    Wireless is fine for other uses, but for my professional needs, wireless alone won't cut it. Plus I can't plug wireless into any network I need to. Most companies have firewalls between their wireless and data networks.
  9. JacaByte macrumors 6502

    Dec 26, 2009
    :) Nice to meet ya, did you know that they make these things called blogs?
  10. 6-0 Prolene macrumors 6502

    Feb 11, 2010

    I'd post a link for "prolly," but it's not a word.
  11. ronjon10 macrumors regular

    Dec 9, 2009
    MacBook Pro's, some Fujitsu's and Thinkpads are the best laptops on the market. I think Asus has the chops and desire to join the big game, but I haven't used one so I have no idea. I also agree that the big 3 all have their advantages and disadvantages.

    I'm going to switch to a MBP with the next release, but after years of using Thinkpads, I'm utterly addicted to the thinkpad track point mouse. It's clearly the best mouse pointer available and I'll miss it dearly. When I remote into my imac using my thinkpad, using the nubbie mouse pointer makes using the imac oh so sweet.
  12. elfxmilhouse macrumors 6502a

    Oct 15, 2008
    Northeast USA
    HARD ethernet port? wtf?
  13. alskdj macrumors member

    Oct 8, 2009
    Hp Envy is comparable to the Pro's, Macbook Air doesn't seem to have a direct competitor. I noticed you complained about the Sony Z series running hot, but tbh the MBP's do run hot as well
  14. pratap21 macrumors member

    Oct 27, 2008
    OP: I know what you mean. The MBP 13" user experience is awesome. Just for the trackpad, I'd keep the MBP with C2d than a PC with core i5.

    Other things I appreciate
    - Backlit keyboard
    - Sleek, uniform design (no bumps, etc)
    - The HW works with the OS perfectly. No driver issues or reinstalls etc
    - Time machine
    - Lack of spyware apps on Mac. The free software is limited and well reviewed, so possibility of installing some ad-ware on the system is less
    - No stickers on the computer
  15. lilo777 macrumors 603

    Nov 25, 2009
    Correction. You are wrong. The better PC laptops are not sold in stores. At least not in store like Best Buy. DELL Studio XPS, HP EliteBook, Sony VAIO Z are not sold there and they are all better than MacBook Pro. Your comments about bad screens etc. are just baseless. You can only get best screens on PC laptops. Only they have modern high resolution screens with RGB LED backlit - no such thing from Apple. Not to mention new processors, better GPUs, USB 3.0, quad SSDs, magnesium alloy or carbon fiber enclosures and so on. So, you would be right to stick with vague claims about "overall user experience". This seems to be the last bastion of defense for Mac fans lately :p
  16. lilo777 macrumors 603

    Nov 25, 2009
    -You can have backlit keyboard on many PC laptops.
    -The design is as plain as they come (I call it "brick"). You could not come up with more boring shape if you tried.
    - HW does not work quite well with Windows. Limited choice of periferals.
    - Time machine vs multitude of choices for Windows. Time Machine is not regarded that well even on this forum.
    - The free software is limited? Is that a good thing? It looks like you have problems with temptations ;)
    - No stickers - yes, but there is an ugly fruit on the lid :D
  17. alskdj macrumors member

    Oct 8, 2009
    my $0.02

    - The trackpad is pretty much unparalleled, though I personally could live
    without it
    - Backlit keyboards are fairly common nowdays.
    - The design is pretty nice, don't really understand what you mean by
    'no bumps' though.
    - The only real drivers issues I've had with windows is when upgrading OS.
    Same with Mac OSX
    - Time Machine is fairly average
    - Being careful with what you download isn't too hard tbh, though the
    chances are lower
    - Agree with you strongly on last point. I hate those damn stickers :mad:

    - Agree with first post, and first point
    - Some people like minimalistic
    - Retarded argument. PC hardware doesn't work at all with OSX, if you want
    to go down that route.
    - Agree on Time Machine
    - I like the Apple logo :p
  18. ae3265 macrumors member

    Feb 3, 2009
  19. kny3twalker macrumors 65816


    Oct 25, 2009
    Screen Quality is better than most laptops, this has been proven in reviews. Apple uses some of the best displays as far as color gamut, only a handful are better which use IPS displays in the laptop.

    Weight: while the 13" is a bit heavy at 4.5 lbs, the 15" and 17" are light and quite light at 5.5 and 6.5 lbs. If they were made of plastic, they would be heavier, just like the macbook is heavier than the macbook pro 13". Most 17" notebooks weight 8 lbs.

    Ports: not bad. There could be more, but there is basically everything most need. And at least Apple has had a digital video and audio output, notebooks like the Thinkpads only recently added this to their entire lineup. To think you could be limited to VGA with a Thinkpad bought in December.

    Dell Studio XPS is not better than the MacBook Pro. When I bought mine in August, the specs were nearly dead even and the XPS is a combination of plastic and metal, not all metal. The XPS had a poorer quality screen (although I have heard the 16 is much better), was just as heavy, was thicker, and was more expensive.

    I do believe the Elitebooks also use some plastics in the case and honestly do not see how they could be superior. They are heavy, thin and well constructed, but I could not say anymore so than the Pro.

    Sony Z is one model in comparison to a lineup and priced even more ridiculously high than the 17" Pro.

    I guess you forgot the 17" Pro when you made your comments about a High Resolution LED backlit display.

    Then magnesium is not superior to aluminum IMO cause it is not brittle. Carbon Fiber might be superior, but aluminum is a pretty good option.

    And USB 3, next generation CPUs, etc... will be here soon for Apple too, considering you are mentioning things like Quad SSDs which is obviously a hint at the new Sony Z which has not been released yet either.
  20. entatlrg thread starter macrumors 68040


    Mar 2, 2009
    Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
    Correction - YOU'RE completely wrong ...

    You should read thoroughly before you post ... I've owned Thinkpad T500's and 400's, an x301, Latitudes of all flavors NONE of which are sold in stores and ALL of which have one thing in common - poor screens. What's the use of a high res screen if the hardware it's running on is junk, I've had enough grainy low quality IBM/Lenovo/Dell screens, set them beside any MBP you'll see what I mean.

    Didn't I say "spec's aside"? Yes, I did. And, for these high end spec's you ramble on about the vast majority people don't need them, what they use a computer for never requires these high end spec's.

    For a laptop that provides the ultimate user experience, that's a pleasure to type on with a great screen, quality built, low maintenance for us that's a Mac, no PC comes close for enjoyable and reliable day to day user experience.

    Hey, I'm not a volunteer Apple fan boy ... we came here because my Company was spending a lot of money on PC laptops with too much grief, Dell, Lenovo and yes, Sony's quality went down hill ... seems to me they went to making numerous colors of notebooks with fancy stickers and designs with high end spec's coming from low quality components and 'poof' you're lost in the frustrating, money gouging pc world, that's just our experience.

    I wish there where more competitors, I have no problem with Win7 so far, but the hardware available to run it on ... NO thanks. I ended up here because I tried a MacBook Pro for fun ... and in 2009 we spent almost $100,000 on Apple computers ... you might say we never looked back ... that's right, works for us :)
  21. Adidas Addict macrumors 65816

    Adidas Addict

    Sep 9, 2008
    Every non-apple laptop I have tried has been noisy as hell. I love the sheer silence of the MBP and unibody white. All the others you can hear the HDD (unless SSD) and the fans in a quiet environment. It may only be a small issue to some but for me its a massive annoyance!

    All the specs in the world cannot help a windows machine IMO, even a base model apple laptop has that special feel that none of the others seem to be able to match. The fantastic integration of the software with hardware is unparalleled across the whole industry. Coupled with the 'easy life' (low maintainence, no bloatware, no virus crap hogging resources etc etc etc) of owning a mac, they are IMO unbeatable.

    PS: The touchpad alone makes it the best :D
  22. Adidas Addict macrumors 65816

    Adidas Addict

    Sep 9, 2008
    Arrrrgggghhh stop, you're making my eyes bleed.
  23. CBedo macrumors newbie

    Feb 8, 2010
    But seriously, who puts the specs aside? :D

    Specs do matter to those of use who do more than surf the net and check email, but if we are putting them aside, there's really only one thing that sets the macbook pro apart right now--the operating system.
  24. Adidas Addict macrumors 65816

    Adidas Addict

    Sep 9, 2008
    Erm, the screen, the design, the build quality, the mousepad

    Oh wait we had this discussion already right? :D:D
  25. MrCheeto macrumors 68030


    Nov 2, 2008
    You people forget that MacOS X is FAR FAR more efficient than Windows.

    When it comes to operating system performance, OS X has Windows beat on any system.

    I've installed XP, Vista and 7 on my notebook and they NEVER perform as good as OS X on the same machine.

    The same is true for DirectX. I can blaze through COD4 like nothing in OS X, but my MacBook Pro gets hotter than ever before when even attempting to run it on the lowest settings in any version of Windows.


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