California legislation would create single-payer health care system

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...lation-would-create-single-payer-10939557.php
    we have to pass it to see what's in it o_O

    on one side out HC should be far better than it is, on the opposite side the GOVT can screw up even a wet dream. :mad:
     
  2. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #2
    Careful with those generalizations.Do you have any experience with Medicare? I have, for two members of my family. I never had a problem with it. Paperwork is minimal. On the other hand, I've had many frustrations and poor experiences with a well-known private insurance company.
     
  3. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
    I like generalizations when they suit MY agenda :D
     
  4. OriginalAppleGuy macrumors 6502

    OriginalAppleGuy

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    #4
    California is on the brink of bankruptcy. How the heck can they possibly support health insurance for their people? Even MASS had to stop accepting people to their program after funding issues. Glad I don't live there!
     
  5. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #5
    Chuckle. That will die like most initiatives out here. The insurance and medical market is big enough to kill it off or advertise it out of existence.
    As if Cali could even afford it...
     
  6. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #6
    we can't afford to fix the Dam but we are going to get everyone insurance..........
     
  7. OriginalAppleGuy macrumors 6502

    OriginalAppleGuy

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    #7
    Wait, didn't you fix the Dam? Oh no, that's right, fixed the wrong one!

    What I love the most about the article is the Nursing Union wants single payer insurance. Don't they know in a single payer market, there is less money available for services? Unions need businesses with big money to pay for two executive branches.
     
  8. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #8
    California would most likely broaden the state level tax basis and shift funding from other sources. I generally wait to hear how they plan on funding something prior to criticizing it. Of course I don't expect this to pass.
     
  9. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #9
    here you go.
    :D
     
  10. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #10
    That's actually what I expected. Keep in mind this sounds more like a contingency plan than anything.
     
  11. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #11
    In reality, I would like to see a state open a public option plan. Same coverage Medicaid, but people pay into it in the form of premiums. I see a viable public option as the only real alternative to single-payer in the next 10 years.
     
  12. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #12
    So it is like trump wrote it it lacks details?
     
  13. OriginalAppleGuy macrumors 6502

    OriginalAppleGuy

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    #13
    Then you desire the bankruptcy of healthcare. Any hospital, long term care facility, etc. that has ever turned to receiving the majority of their income from Medicaid has gone bankrupt and/or closed down. Medicaid reimbursements more often than not don't cover the basic costs of providing care.

    One could say the same thing for Medicare. Many physicians have greatly limited seeing patients with Medicare for the same reasons stated above - reimbursement rates are too low. With the aging of baby boomers converting from private pay to govt pay programs, many providers are in for a major struggle. In the case of Medicare, some procedures are paid at a profitable level while others are not. Providers can only hope for more of the profitable ones to stay in business.

    Obamacare, ACA, whatever you want to call it needs a major revamping. People who paid premiums close to $200/mo now pay close to $900/mo. And out of pocket payments when care is needed are so much higher than they used to pay. Why is this? Simple business concept - need to cover costs. If you take on someone with costs of several thousand dollars a month and charge them the same monthly premium as everyone else, you have to charge everyone more. The idea behind the ACA in getting more people on plans is a great idea as long as everyone plays along. But the reported numbers are quite lofty and not very truthful. There are still 10's of millions of people without health insurance. In fact, many insurers are pulling out of states for this reason, they are not making enough. And no, it doesn't mean they are all greedy bad companies either.
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Nationwide single payer. Right. The USVA on steroids. You'll die while waiting for an appointment--as has happened to many veterans.
     
  15. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #15
    Other countries much less wealthy than the U.S. manage to provide universal health coverage - Canada, France, England, Sweeden, etc., without going bankrupt. Yet here it is considered an impossibility.
     
  16. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #16
    If trump had written it the. It would just be a tweet :p
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017 ---
    Because BOTH dems & republicans are in the pockets of the HC industry :(
     
  17. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #17
    and those countries can enjoy their cost of living too. no thanks. I'll pay my own way for my own doctors and pay less in taxes. we hear all this whining about those in-need, so set up a go-fund-me line item on peoples tax returns and let those that want to contribute to those in need for their health plans pony up their money to do so.
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #18
    Umm...those countries costs-of-living seem just fine. They're not complaining. You are.
     
  19. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #19
    then you can pay it...
     
  20. OriginalAppleGuy macrumors 6502

    OriginalAppleGuy

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    #20
    What's your experience there, Blackfox? I've studied it and spoken with people who live in those countries. The theme I seem to hear the most is when you are young, it's great. But, you are less likely to need healthcare let alone a specialist. Those older people who do require specialists and can afford it may end up coming to the USA to get care.

    Those countries you mentioned tend to have higher tax rates with cultures more socialist minded. Many are struggling, in fact, to meet their financial demands for healthcare. For instance, England stopped covering care for those who drank themselves to the hospital as one way to help curb costs.

    There are other concerns about starting universal healthcare in the USA. You have to have money to pay for it. Care providers can find ways to reduce costs. However, the government has to be involved and reduce the regulatory burden. Additionally, many providers here have had to install very expensive electronic medical records systems. Even more is being spent to protect the records in those systems as healthcare companies become targets by hackers.

    Focusing back on California, they just can't afford it given their current budgets and tax revenue streams. If they increase their tax burden on residents to levels that could help support universal healthcare, they risk losing population to states with lower rates. It's a balancing act that they just haven't proven capable of doing in the past.
     
  21. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #21
  22. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #22
    And the tax rates they pay are much higher than ours. If we all of a sudden taxed our residents at European rates our economy would tank into possibly a true depression.

    Had we not spent the last 8 years doubling our debt then maybe we could have used debt to smooth the transition, but we shouldn't borrow what we would need to make the change over.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 21, 2017 ---
    One, they don't know any different. Second, go live in Europe for a month or two. The average American has a much higher standard of living. They aren't hungry or on the street, but their homes are smaller, they shop for food much more often because their refrigerators are half the size of the ones here and they don't have huge pantries. The idea of taking a 15-20 minute hot shower is not something they would ever do. Everything is more expensive. They live well, but not excessive like Americans. FYI, my wife lived in Europe for 2 years and we have gone back several times to see her friends.
     
  23. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #23
    I did a quick check of Canada's taxes vs. U.S. and found an article on Investopedia. It's not an easy comparison to make, but at first glance there is no indication of "much higher" taxes in Canada:

    "Federal Income Taxes
    U.S. federal income tax brackets range from 10% to 35% for individuals. On the Canadian side, the range is 15% to 29%. In the U.S., the lowest tax bracket bumps to 15% at $8,500 and to 25% at $34,501. The bottom Canadian bracket stays at 15% until $41,544. This is the bulk of the reason that lower-income Canadians are often better off than Americans in an identical tax situation. On the other hand, the IRS taxes the richest Americans at 35% whereas the top federal tax rate in Canada is 29%. Rich Americans, however, have access to many tax deductions that Canada's Alternative Minimum Tax does not allow."

    "Healthcare
    No discussion of U.S. versus Canadian taxes would be complete without comparing the healthcare systems in both countries. The income taxes that Canadians pay partially fund the country's socialized health plan, where everyone has equal access to medical facilities, practitioners and procedures for no additional cost. In the U.S., health care must be paid for out-of-pocket or through a health care insurance plan. Premiums for these plans averaged out at $4,824 per person as of 2009, not including amounts paid for co-pays and deductibles.

    Read more: Do Canadians Really Pay More Taxes Than Americans? | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/financi...-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#ixzz4ZM7j5S5U
     
  24. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #24
    I'm English. Emigrated to the US a while back. Also lived in Sweden for a couple years, many moons ago...
     
  25. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

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    #25
    That's absolutely right. The US should paying less and those countries should be paying more.
    http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-2112662
     

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