California, still disconnected from reality...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LumbermanSVO, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. LumbermanSVO macrumors 65816

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    #1
    So, tomorrow I will be going into Mira Loma, CA (L.A. Area) to make a delivery. I cut my day short today and decided to sleep in Kingman, AZ so I wouldn't have to go into CA. Why? Well, it's warm out, I can can't sleep when it's over 80 out unless I have A/C, to get A/C I need to idle my truck, that is illegal in CA.

    A couple weeks ago CA started sending out law enforcement to truck stops to ticket truckers who idle their trucks, even if the truck meets the CA idling requirements. Some trucks have auxiliary power units that can supply heat and A/C but CA is ticketing even if you are running one of those.

    Lawmakers have been passing stricter and stricter truck safety laws and now they don't care if we sleep? Where is the sense in all this?

    I think it is about time the trucking industry cuts CA off from the rest of the country. Eff them, let them starve. This will be my last trip to CA.
     
  2. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    #2
    Not knowing a thing about what you're talking about and being in CA I sort of agree with you. California's legislature is so hell bent on making this a green state that it is getting completely out of hand. I mean, you can say f-us about deliveries and such but you provide a service and if you do not do it someone else will. You have your hard stand, I have mine. Like I said, I agree to a degree, but you not making a delivery of whatever you deliver to CA is so easily replaceable by someone who really could use the money.
     
  3. Gray-Wolf macrumors 68030

    Gray-Wolf

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    #3
    CA, due to growth and all, has chosen to have the highest EPA and all rules in place. You can't fault them for this. Only alternative, is find a middle ground, ie motel room with A/C. truckers do need their sleep as accidents will happen if they fall asleep at the wheel.

    Other states are beginning to follow their lead.
     
  4. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Is is not an easy feat to find a motel with truck parking, much less one that still has rooms available or one close enough for you to legally get to. How much are rooms going to cost if every trucker is trying to get one?

    BTW, two drivers have already died because of this.
     
  5. Gray-Wolf macrumors 68030

    Gray-Wolf

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    #5
    Another possibility, is to have 2 drivers, presuming long haul, that can spell each other every 4 hours, and sleep. Presuming a sleeper rig.
     
  6. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

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    #6
    Minnesota has a similar law although I think it is specific to passenger vehicles.
     
  7. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #7
    I agree with LumbermanSVO, although I like California's stance on tackling environmental issues.

    The attempt by California to do whatever it takes is nice, but it's not practical, and like it says in the thread title, it's a bit too far detached from reality. It almost seems as though lawmakers saw the potential to reduce environmental impact and simply approved it. It doesn't appear that they were very interested in any practical issues that may result.

    Truckers already get very little sleep. To tell them to put up with it because there are other people willing to do the same job for the same money is insensitive and inhumane. I guess the same justification can be used for abuse in any profession. This doesn't even take sweatshops into consideration.
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #8
    If APUs are specifically indicated as an alternative to idling by CARB, why are people using APUs being ticketed also?
     
  9. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #9
    Good question.

    We as a nation want our highways safe to drive on. Tired truckers pose a threat to normal traffic. Hotels are expensive. And finding one when you get tired may not be the easiest due to the size of the rig and other factors. I would rather truckers can pull over into any rest stop and catch some sleep. An APU seems like a wonderful alternative to running the main engine.
     
  10. dmr727 macrumors G3

    dmr727

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    #10
    Does the A/C in trucks require anything more than just electrical power? Seems to me that if Cali is going to do this - they need to pony up the cash to provide electrically powered APUs at every truck stop.
     
  11. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Team trucks do exist, and are highly profitable, the problem is getting two people to live in such a small space for such long periods of time without killing each other. I've tried it and it ended badly, I have a thread title "Let's Talk Trucks" that has some of the details and the horrific ending of that experiment.

    I will soon be training new drivers so I will be a half-arsed team truck. The biggest difference is that the students will know they are students and I will have the power to boot them from the truck if need be.

    Also, even with a team truck you can't keep the truck moving 24/7, you will run out of hours and have to stop for 24 hours somewhere to reset your 70 hour clock every 6-1/2 days(34-hours for a solo driver). And due to delivery and pickup times there is no way to guarantee that the truck wont be parked somewhere just waiting. Would CA rather have the truck driving around in circles burning even more fuel, or parked idling?

    I don't hve any problem with "green" policies as long as they are practical. A better alternative would be a federal requirement for all truck of X model year and newer to come equipped with an APU that meets that years emissions standards.

    APU's have been around for awhile but they are expensive (around $10k installed) so they haven't been widely adopted. With the recent spike in fuel prices and anti-idling laws they have become more common place(still less than 1/4-1/3 of the trucks have them).

    Until about a year ago they had very loose emissions requirements, Now they must meet the same standards as the truck they are attached too. Many, many trucks have APU's that don't meet the same emissions standards as the truck they are on because the laws changed after they were bought/installed.

    My guess, it is easier to just ticket everyone doing any form of idling and let the courts figure it out than to look to see if the equipment meets the requirements. That method would also seem to bring in more money.

    I would love to have one but I don't have the $10k to spend on a truck that doesn't belong to me. In 1-1/2 years when I buy this truck the first thing I do will be to put an APU on it.
     
  12. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #12
    I believe this to be correct.

    Neat idea. Of course the truckers would have to pay an electrical usage cost.
     
  13. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #13
    The A/C system has a compressor in it, the compressor is turned by the engine, same as in your car. Most APU's on the market have an alternator and A/C compressor.

    Running an all electric A/C unit for 10 hours would drain the batteries(4) to the point that the truck couldn't start. I've only come across two truck stops that had shore power(what you described). One is the 49'er in Sacramento, but it only has bout 10 spots. The other is the TA in Coburg(Eugene), Oregon, it has about 30.
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #14
    Can the union pull together and just halt all shipments to CA?
     
  15. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #15
    Something read about a few years ago and something LumbermanSVO more than likely has seen is something that some truck stops have is this thing that hooks on to the cab window of the truck. It provides heating and Cooling for the cab of the truck and Power for the drive to plug things into and internet access.

    I think CA if they want to do this pony up for having all truck stuff have enough of these things installed and then provide for like 10-15 bucks a night for truck drivers which I am going to assume is cheaper than fuel cost to run an APU for a night.

    CA is a state that wants its cake and eat it to.

    There is a reason it is called the Republic of California.
     
  16. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Very few trucking companies are union. Due to the communications difficulties it is very hard to organize an event like this.

    There have been some places in Europe where the truckers have blocked all roads going in and out of certain cities for days at a time. These events were highly successful.

    Don't worry, the cost will just be passed on to you. Some new people will do pieces talking about how unjust it is but in then end you would pay for it.

    I remember news pieces about how unfair it was that transportation companies were charging for the increase in the cost of fuel...
     
  17. FunkyMonkey macrumors 6502

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    #17
    No, I'm just happy you don't like California.
     
  18. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #18
    Im juts curious, if you don't want any trucks in CA how do you expect to get your food or goods?
     
  19. FunkyMonkey macrumors 6502

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    By saying No, I was implying that I like to have trucks coming to CA.
     
  20. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #20
    You are thinking of IdleAire. It costs $2.45/hour for basic heat, A/C and electricity, the price goes up it you want more features. There are limited locations and the setup takes more land than a non-IdleAire locations.

    They recently filed for bankruptcy and were looking to the government for funding.

    Many companies have tried in-cab services for truckers and failed, lookup Park-N-View
     
  21. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #21
    So true.

    Just like those who want to raise corporate taxes.

    The customer is the one who ends up paying the bill.
     
  22. TheAnswer macrumors 68030

    TheAnswer

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    #22
    The problem with that, in addition to the one LumbermanSVO pointed out, is that California has a vast central valley of agricultural goodies and well as some huge port complexes through which a large amount of the goodies for the rest of the U.S. travel arrive.

    So, sure, you could halt all the shipments to CA. We'll just have to keep all your [insert Winter holiday of choice] presents. :p
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #23
    That would hurt the local businesses more than the rest of the country. I would see the state overturning the law quick.
     
  24. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #24
    FYI, the trucking industry in general doesn't like CA but they deal with it because it comes with the gig. Don't believe me? There are plenty of trucking boards out there, have look and see what the rest of the industry thinks.

    What happens when CA goes too far and the industry decides not to deal with it any more? You'll certainly have your clean air! :D
     
  25. LumbermanSVO thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #25
    I'm sure Mexico, Oregon, Washington, and B.C. would love the extra commerce. There is also that whole Gulf Coast thing and that little canal that connects it to the Pacific :D
     

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