Campaign Zero: Criminal Justice Reform We (all) Can Live With

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    A group of anti- police brutality activists have just today launched a very detailed website containing a number of proposals designed to address specific areas of police conduct and policy. In every instance, they cite example of specific state or department laws and policies that are examples of how such changes might be implemented.

    Campaign Zero website
    [​IMG]
    IMHO this should not be liberal vs. conservative issue. Civil rights, and the right to live in a society free from state-sanctioned oppression and violence ought to be the goal of all Americans, of every race, political affiliation, economic status, and religious faith.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    disagree with #9.
    not sure what the hell does #10 have to do there.
     
  3. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #3
    Do you want police to have military weapons at their disposal to use against the people?

    From their site:

    http://www.joincampaignzero.org/contracts



    Some of those solutions make sense.

    BL.
     
  4. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #4
    This is probably the one I agreed with the most. There was a reason why the founding fathers didn't want a standing military. They tend to make enemies of out of the people they're supposedly protecting when there's no one else around to fight. George Washington and Co. experienced it first hand, and took measure to prevent that from happening in their then new country.

    We ended up getting around that potential for abuse by making our military about as liable as any civilian while off base.

    But now, here we are, busy militarizing our police. And we're slowly starting to see the consequences of that decision.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    thanks for #10.

    I don't particularly care if they do, gangs have AK 47s already, why should the cops have less?
     
  6. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    How about stop being a criminal. That seems to work too.
     
  7. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #7
    Let me put it another way.

    If this country is based on the concepts of limited government, why should the government (in this case, LEOs) be given bigger and more weapons to control the very people to whom they fall under scrutiny? They certainly wouldn't be providing for the common defense, as arming them with tanks and other military-type weapons is akin to defending against insurrection, which is the exact opposite of what this government is based on, let alone that they would be working for.

    to throw a common 2A defense question back at you, should LEOs be able to purchase and use military weapons that the people can't purchase themselves? I believe you and a few others answered that question with an unequivocal NO.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that the people should purchase those same type of weapons, but that LEOs shouldn't as well. Keep in mind that they work for us; through bonds, taxes, and other measures, we put them on the payroll.

    That doesn't mean that the people should own military weapons either (while technically, we do, since we pay for the country's armed forces).. we level the playing field by limiting government, not give the people weapons to equal the government.

    Have a read of what they are saying about demilitarization as well:

    http://www.joincampaignzero.org/demilitarization

    How about limiting government like your lot claims to do, while living by those principles.

    BL.
     
  8. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #8
    It didn't work too well for Tamir Rice. It didn't seem to work too well for Levar Jones. It doesn't work that well for - literally - hundreds of Americans every year. People who were either completely innocent victims of police mis-identifications, mistakes - or were guilty of little more than the most trivial offenses: selling single cigarettes, etc. And end up dead or horribly brutalized as a result.

    If it can happen to one innocent person - it can happen to you. And any cop will tell you, its pretty much impossible to drive down the street without a cop with a mission to find some reason to pull you over.

    No one is talking about disarming the police. Or making it impossible for them to perform their duty or defend themselves.

    We are talking about some reasonable reforms to ensure we don't end up living in an atmosphere of violent state tyranny.

    Because I'll tell: In no other country in the industrialized world are the police as feared as they are in the USA. And thats not good for the cops. Its certainly not good for us as citizens.
     
  9. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

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    #9
    Baby steps.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #10
    1 actually my take is that I should be able to buy the SAME weapons that LEO's can.
    2. did you know criminals already have access to these weapons?
    3. that is a bit vague, what military weapons? AR's? grenade launchers?
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #11
    The big problem is when they start using these weapons for any reason whatsoever. Hey guys, some kid's smoking the pots down on Houston Street! LET'S BREAK OUT THE APC, FLASHBANGS, TEAR GAS, BODY ARMOR AND GUNS, THEN DO A RAID!

    ...OH SHI! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE!
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #12
    because our GOVT is hungry for the revenue that fines & penalties raise.
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #13
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    our GOVT needs to change the way they do things, make drugs legal, stop incarcerating people for simple stupidity, sadly as mentioned earlier our GOVT needs the money & the way to get it is by fleecing the poor with tickets/fines etc etc etc.
     
  14. Renzatic Suspended

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    #14
    That's more a local government thing, not federal, but yeah, I agree somewhat. Traffic tickets are all fine and dandy, but there have been plenty of examples of the police using some well meaning laws to justify random search and seizures just to get some department fun money.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    I think departments use a ticket quota to judge a cops "performance", that needs to change, I don't care if the cops are terrorizing donuts all day long as long as crime in the area is down.
     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

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    #16
    I think some do. Don't know if it's a universal thing or not, though.
     
  17. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Well, that is one of the areas addressed in this initiative. Getting rid of ticket and arrest quotas as a means of evaluating police officers.

    It cites an Illinois State law that

    Personally I saw a lot of good ideas there. Things that need discussion, and probably some input from rank and file police officers.

    But what is not acceptable is continuing to do nothing.
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #18
    of course it is, I am ALWAYS right.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #19
    [​IMG]
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #20
    I like this one [​IMG]
     
  21. Renzatic Suspended

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    #21
    Mine's better. They look more stupid.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #22
    they have a happy grin on their face, not sure I could keep that grin if I was bleeding like they appear to be.
     
  23. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #23

    Take a trip to North Korea, then come back and let's reflect on these proposals from the armchair police experts.
     
  24. Renzatic Suspended

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    #24
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Populism, Aug 21, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015

    Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #25
    I agree.

    And I look forward to the day that "not federal" means something again.

    Until then, let each of us hope that our preferred respective political party is in federal power.
     

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