Can I charge my Boss for fines incurred due to him?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by elf69, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. elf69 macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #1
    OK this is a bit different.

    My boss is a bit of a prat.
    I'm looking for another job and have been for a little while now.

    My boss does not pay us staff on time or in full.
    We are paid weekly and should be paid thursday/friday (yes I know odd day)

    So we usually have to request payment and even then 9 out of ten times it s part payment.
    The other day I only got £40 out of him!

    To date over £400 owed.

    Yes you can all say stupid me for staying!
    I like my job, not the boss though.

    I have good relations with many customers and as such I keep going to keep our customers happy.
    Many customers will only deal with me and no body else in the company.

    Due to the erratic and late payments I am incurring bank charges etc.

    I have asked some local help organisations who have not been so helpful.
    Has anyone here been in similar situation?
     
  2. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    #2
    Get out.

    One part or late payment from your boss should not happen let alone multiple. You’re not a charity, you work for money. Staying to “keep the customers happy” is pointless.

    Stop mucking around and get another job, any job, right now. If you have multiple customers and you’re busy and yet your boss can’t pay you then something fishy is happening and you DO NOT want to be there when someone figures out what.

    Get. Out. Now.
     
  3. MacDawg macrumors Core

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #3
    To your original question, can you charge boss for fines incurred due to him...
    Naw, that's on you, not him

    And it is on you for staying in the situation when clearly you know you should not
    Man up and move on
     
  4. elf69 thread starter macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #4
    I have been looking for new job.

    I'm disabled and some local jobs I cannot do, others I been turned down I'm sure due to my condition but they word is such way hard prove it.

    I have even considered setting up on my own.

    The company is not as profitable as used to be due to boss actions.
    We had 3 locations spread across 2 towns.

    Now we have 1 location and it is smaller and not on high street.

    Cannot walk out from job making myself unemployed as then the local authorities would not help me as I made the situation.

    I sell computers and accessories.
     
  5. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #5
    Yup.....

    To the OP: I guess you must really like your job. There is no way I would stay somewhere that it is a regular occurrence to be paid late, or partially paid.

    Is your boss the owner of the company? If not, go over your boss's head, and explain the situation.

    Here in the US, there are protections in place to prevent that type of behavior. So, trying to use the chain of command usually solves issues like yours to prevent legal actions. Any protections like that in the UK?
     
  6. MacDawg macrumors Core

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #6
    Truly not trying to be insensitive to your situation
    However, there is a fine line between being unemployed and being employed and not being paid

    Not sure what the laws are like there, but I would think you would have some legal recourse in working and not getting paid
    With the caveat that doing so may cause the business to go "out of business" thus leaving you unemployed in the end
     
  7. TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

    TiggrToo

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Location:
    Out there...way out there
    #7
    Have you reached out to the employment tribunal?
     
  8. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #8
    If clients will only deal with you then it appears you can turn the tables on the boss by starting up your own business that competes and taking those clients with you. If your boss is as poor at "non-competes" as he is at payroll, I'm guessing you probably do not have such an agreement in place. So, consider pulling the pieces together to start your own company and you be your own boss. With you as your boss, your boss can never mistreat you again.

    Take that initial batch of clients with you and work hard to bring on more. Since the boss's business has shrunk, I'm guessing that means he's lost other clients. So go back to them too and explain that you've started up your own to get back to the best of how things used to be... to see if you can woo some of them "back" to your new business.

    If there are laws there for this situation, it's probably time to contact the authority over such laws. I have to think there are at least employees with disability laws to some degree. Consequence: if the boss has the money, you probably get paid, including lucrative back pay owed to you, that might be a nice cushion for starting your own business. If the boss does not have the money, he probably closes the shrinking company and you find yourself unemployed (but in a way that is compatible with unemployment program probably in place).

    Another option: go to a competitor and take your loyal clients with you. A competitor will likely not rip you off on payroll and be thrilled that some level of new business follows you to their company. If you lack enough risk tolerance to start your own business, this seems like an easier way to go.

    A hybrid option: go to a competitor and make them an offer they can't refuse. For example, if you know you can bring a bunch of business with you, consider offering yourself as employee at a low-to-nill fixed salary plus a large-to-larger commission. A commission-only or commission-heavy pitch is hard to resist as they are only paying you if you are brining more money to them.

    The main thing I read in your posts is that you have a (starter) group of clients very loyal to you. That seems to be your best play here: start your own business, take those clients to a competitor, take those clients to a competitor and get the job by making them a commission-heavy offer they can't refuse. If either of the latter becomes the way you want to go, line up the job before taking any legal action against the existing employer if there are some laws likely to yield in your favor.
     
  9. elf69 thread starter macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #9
    The boss is owner, so nobody higher.

    If company folded or went under then I am eligible for financial help until find another job or in setting up on my own.

    A colleague tried tribunal before he left.
    Unfortunately in UK unless the boss actually responds to the tribunal letter nothing they can do.
    He has to acknowledge the debt before they can take action.

    He was left out to tune of £2400 over 9 years.
    He has since set up a rival company and doing very well.

    I am searching daily for opportunity to get out and so is the only other member of staff left, our last engineer.
    The company is no longer profitable yet the boss will not close the doors.
    He should close up shop as it does not work as a business.

    my loyal clients are sadly not massive 3-5 and only one of these is a company the others are home users so have little leverage if going to competitor.
    In this town there is only one real competitor, although there is one other shop but he has a bad rep in the town as a rip off merchant.

    However in my home town (14 miles away from where I work) there is no such shop.
    This is what makes me think of setting up in home town.
    Anyone in my home town has to travel minimum 14 miles west or east to nearest computer shop.

    most head east (opposite direction to where I work) to the big city.
     
  10. Gutwrench Contributor

    Gutwrench

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #10
    If he isn’t meeting payroll consistently then he likely isn’t in good standing with his business creditors either.

    It seems to be just a matter of time before this collapses on his head and yours. Who should you have more loyalty to...your customers or yourself?

    You ought to be pounding the bricks to find a more stable company while he’s still making (sortof) payroll. I fear you’ll come to work one day soon and the doors will shut. Suddenly you have no income and obligations to meet. That’s one hell of a bind to be in, my friend.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #11
    There could be mitigating reasons to stay, but my initial impulse is to say get out asap. I know someone who was in this situation where they were either not getting full pay, or they were being paid in cash, think about that.

    You boss has already shown his qualities. He is a cheat or at a minimum he has reneged on his employment contract/promise. Did you get a sad song? Did he tell you things would get better? Can you afford not being paid?

    If he can’t run his business and pay his employees then there is no viable business. This might be different if it’s a startup enterprise, but I think employees or joint owners would walk into that situation knowing in advance that their pay may be impacted for the sake of getting a new business established. And employees are different than owners. If there is no promise of a payday other than wages owed, then you should expect to be paid what you are owed on schedule.
     
  12. elf69 thread starter macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #12
    when I joined we had 4 premises. one not for public to walk into as was design studio (websites) but this was sold off shortly after I joined.
    I been here I think 10-11 years (lost track now of exact time)
    This is my only full time job since leaving education system.

    only last 18 months to 2 years has these problems started.
    I can live with a days or two late payment, and this has happened and got paid in full.

    but its the part payments and no reason given.
    and when asked, "I'll do it right" away only for nothing to be done.

    The year before I joined company, the boss purchased the company from the last boss.
    The old boss nobody had bad word say against him!

    old boss even paid his staff for holidays they had not used that year.
    And had xmas parties he paid for.

    As you can imagine spirits slowly sunk among staff as we went from 9 staff to just 2 now
     
  13. HobeSoundDarryl, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #13
    It seems like you've got the accumulated good advice that can be offered in various states of "leave" (start your own, go to a competitor, go do something else). The core of all of the advice is basically: don't expect the boss to change, so leave. Staying but expecting change is more on you than your boss.

    As to lack of local (alternative job) opportunities, a bigger solution might involve moving to where there are more opportunities. Maybe the bigger town nearby or maybe a bigger city beyond that? In short, a lot of your comments seem to revolve around wanting something to come to you, something to happen for you (looking to others to bring a solution to you). Often in problems like this, it's far easier and much more likely to find resolution by you taking the action- instead of waiting on reaction- meaning, perhaps you need to not just leave the job but also move to where there are more opportunities too. Proactive tends to work much better than reactive in these kinds of situations.

    And old boss is long gone. Looking backwards never solves problems in the present or the future. If you want sympathy, I'm sure many of us can sympathize... but piles of sympathy won't solve your immediate problem. From my perspective, it looks like the best path to resolution is for you to take action(s) to improve your own opportunity.
     
  14. elf69 thread starter macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #14
    I do not expect it to "land in my lap"

    I do hunt and have sent and personally taken CVs to companies in my home town.
    The big city is much harder to break into due to high applicants for jobs and my disability putting me at a disadvantage.

    My boss will never change (except maybe get worse).
    I do not expect anything from him to change.

    I'm not looking for sympathy, if anything the opposite.
    I have a few friends who are good at keeping me motivated to look for work.

    I do a little pc/Mac/android tuition to mostly elderly outside of work. I seem to have a knack with elderly and teaching them.
    But this is very sporadic and cannot sustain me alone.

    I personally never met old boss so I am not looking back as nothing to look back on.
    It was just background of where company came from and it's demise.
     
  15. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #15
    I’d start looking for a new job. At least here in the US, you barely see computer repair places around.

    If your boss isn’t paying you on time or in full, it’s because he can’t afford to. That’s bad news. You don’t want to be stuck with the business going under and not being paid at all. I would leave as soon as you can procure a new job.
     

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14 March 16, 2018