Can we kick Att in the nuts?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by NTM, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. NTM macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    #1
    So like many I have an "unlimited" plan from att and got throttled last month. Tested speeds on my throttled phone to another phone that wasn't throttled. Upload speeds are not effected like download speeds in that they remain relatively constant between throttled and non-throttled phones.

    I realize that it seems as if att is labeling anyone over two gigs as in the top 5%, but in theory couldn't we raise what the top 5% uses even though they are being throttled?

    What if when everyone who hits the %5 in their billing cycle found a way to have continuous uploads from their phone 24/7 until the next bill cycle. I realize that this most not likely have a large effect but at least we could continue to consume data on att's network.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. diamond.g macrumors 603

    diamond.g

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    #2
    You mean using something like Justin.tv to upload video?
     
  3. Stealthipad macrumors 68040

    Stealthipad

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    #3
    You will not find enough people to do this when you consider the sheer number of users on AT&T. They will not even know it is happening! If it make one feel better, go for it. Just beware that AT&T could find a way to kick YOU in the same place!:p
     
  4. ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #4
    I'm not the first guy to say that "lawyering up" is the answer to every problem. But it certainly seems that AT&T has been heavily focused not on its top 5% of users, but rather on those Top 5% that happen to have a grandfathered plan. This does seem like a bit of discriminatory business practices, but then again, its a service contract and I'm pretty sure the TOS agreement will let them do anything they want to you regardless of whether its discriminatory or not.

    My last straw with AT&T was when I tried to fight an auto-enrollment in a tethering plan. I didn't jailbreak my phone. I didn't use a tethering app. What I did do was a lot of Pandora streaming one month. I averaged, over the past 4 years, less than 1 gig of data each month. That particular month I was working at a client site all month and listened to Pandora for 8+ hours per day over 3G. I ran up 5 gigs for the month.

    When I was accused of tethering, I explained that the only thing I was connected to was the power plug for the iPhone so I couldn't possibly be tethering. When the rep asked me if I had played the Pandora music through external speakers, I said yes....I used a Bluetooth-enabled Jambox by Jawbone (great speaker by the way). Since the Jambox is bluetooth connected, it has a MAC address (all BT devices do). This, according to the rep, constituted "tethering" and that was that. No further appeal was possible, they forced me to a Tethering contract.

    I paid the ETF to break my contract, sold my old iPhone to recoup that ETF plus enough to cover the purchase of my Verizon iPhone. I've got several other Verizon contracts already in place via work and family and I know they have their own share of problems. But better the devil I know than the one I don't.
     
  5. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #5
    My thought is 'petty.'
     
  6. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #6
    I fired ATT after six years, that was the best way to Kick them in the *** that I could think of. I am also attempting an arbitration.
     
  7. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #7
    Wow. AT&T's argument that blue tooth speakers is tethering is makes a crappy argument sound good.

    Hello it does not make any sense honesty.
     
  8. ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #8
    While I thought so too at the time, it was the fact that they were penalizing me for a single month of overage whereas I'd been an "under-user" for years prior. They had no loyalty to me, no understanding. I had no leverage and if you read the fine print of the contract, you'll see that AT&T maintains 100% of the leverage at all times.

    Tethering is defined in AT&T's AUP (Acceptable Use Policy) and I'm well-versed on that document after this happened to me. They clearly have covered their butts with the following clause:

    "Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. "

    Bluetooth + "other equipment" = Tethering

    AT&T was within their legal rights and I truly suspect that when it comes to dealing with those of us that retained Unlimited plans....they are heavy-handed on purpose. I'd not be surprised at all to learn that AT&T CS reps get a bounty on the number of grandfathered Unlimited plans they are able to kill.
     
  9. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #9
    That is untrue, if so all bluetooth headsets would be considered tethering.

    Tethering; is defined as; Tethering is the process of using a cell phone or smartphone as a modem for a personal computer of some sort - typically a laptop computer.

    AS A MODEM! not to send your audio channels through.

    You still have a valid case, argument, and they are wrong. But as I have said many times over on this forum;

    You are only entitleled to the benefits of a contract if you hold the other party to said contract.

    When you allow them to do as they please you have given up your rights.

    The way I am going to give it to ATT is to keep these threads allive as long as I can and keep ATTs breach of contract in the spotlight untill it has been stopped.

    I stand on my rights, and you will have to fight me for them if you want them.
     
  10. ReallyBigFeet, Jan 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012

    ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #10
    Dude, you and I can define Tethering to mean whatever we WANT it to mean. Our definition is totally irrelevant. Accurate, maybe...but still totally irrelevant. You didn't sign a contract with ReallyBigFeet Communications. You signed one with AT&T just like I did.

    AT&T defines tethering EXACTLY as I printed it above. Here's the link if you want to see for yourself:

    http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/wireless-terms.jsp

    And here's the relevant section (6.2):

    Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Internet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, wireline s or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, redirecting television signals for viewing on Personal Computers, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.

    Oh and if you peruse this further....fight all you want, but you also agreed to BINDING ARBITRATION when you signed the AT&T service agreement. Which means you'll have to FIRST fight that battle before jousting at any other windmills.

    I don't like it, but I have a choice....don't use their service if I don't like their policies. I exercised that choice. Fighting it is futile as there is nothing to fight. You agreed to it going in....good luck saying you didn't.
     
  11. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #11
    I agree.
    The best way to fight them is if people start leaving them.
    But from the looks of it they dont seem like they care anyway.
     
  12. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #12
    They would care if a lot of people left them, but most people, like myself are happy with them.

    If they lose a few percentage of people because they are amongst the 5%, it would probably make them happy to get rid of the people who are eating up their bandwidth.
     
  13. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #13
    True.
    I dont use that much data cause Im around wifi a lot but if a month like the user above did use up 2-3 GB's I'd hate to be throttled or accused of tethering and lose my unlimited data.
     
  14. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    Albany, NY
    #14
    I agree, I wouldn't be happy if I was throttled. I am around wifi a lot as well. Though I used to travel a lot for my last job and I did consume a lot more data than I do now. I used to tether often, use Sirius/XM app at least a few hours a day and use the sling media app as well. The job I have now I rarely travel and there is wifi at work.


    My situation may change in the future and I could be an unhappy customer if I am throttled. Also, I don't understand why they charger people over 2gb a month another $10/gb but throttle that data. I think that's something that could be fought.



     
  15. kalex macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    #15
    So if you read all this u are basically not allowed to do anything. You can check your email and thats about it.

    So if u listen to pandora radio while using bluetooth speaker to output its sound you are tethering on att? Ye good luck with that one in court. basically its getting to the point when they will get their behinds sued and for once I would agree and support that lawsuit. This is idiotic
     
  16. chakraj, Jan 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012

    chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #16
    Dude, its not my defintition. Its the first definition in all of the dictionaries I checked. What you posted is their policy and not the definition of tethering. tethering is using your phone as a modem, thats not my idea of what it is, that is what it is.

    Just to prove 100% without a doubt that you are wrong, here is AT&Ts definition of tethering


    An overview of device tethering

    Tethering lets you use your smartphone as a wireless modem or mobile hotspot for your PC or Wi-Fi-capable device. With a qualified data plan that includes tethering, you get full access to the Internet and your email when you connect your device to your laptop via Bluetooth or USB cable.


    http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB102856#fbid=R6OtCjImfV2

    I wonder how many other things in the wireless agreement you have wholesaley (made up word) miss understood?
     
  17. ReallyBigFeet, Jan 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012

    ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #17
    Again, your interpretation on the definition of tethering is totally, 100% irrelevant. Your opinion is irrelevant on the matter. The only thing relevant is AT&T's Acceptable Use Policy.

    I get why you are upset. I get why it bothers you that they have such a draconian view of bluetooth streaming and define it as "tethering." But the only definition that has ANY relevance here is AT&T's. Like it or leave. I left. Complaining that Merriam Webster and PC Magazine have a different definition of tethering is worth about jack and spit combined.


    Great work Sherlock. You found the Acceptable Use Policy -WITH- a Tethering Plan enabled. Good grief are you that dense? I've even bolded/underlined it for you so that hopefully you can tell the difference.

    If you PAY for a Tethering Plan, of course they let you Tether. Duh. We have been discussing, and I've posted twice, what the AUP is WITHOUT a Tethering Plan. Which was my primary complaint. I wasn't on a Tethering Plan. I was on an Unlimited Data plan. Their AUP clearly states (and again, I've posted it twice) that WITHOUT a Tethering Plan, you can't stream data via Bluetooth to any device. I was forced into a Tethering Plan so that I COULD use Pandora to stream music to my external speakers. THAT is totally permissable AUP....once you pay for a Tethering plan.

    I've not misunderstood a single thing. You, on the other hand, need to find the "logoff" button methinks. Because you are truly, hopelessly lost here.
     
  18. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #18
    I am not upset, it just makes me sad when people dont read about the terms they are using and then let companies push them around because of them not understanding whats going on.

    Read above for AT&Ts definition of tethering, what could matter more than that?

    The reality is you got lied to and fooled by an att rep.

    http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB102856#fbid=R6OtCjImfV2

    An overview of device tethering

    Tethering lets you use your smartphone as a wireless modem or mobile hotspot for your PC or Wi-Fi-capable device. With a qualified data plan that includes tethering, you get full access to the Internet and your email when you connect your device to your laptop via Bluetooth or USB cable.[/SIZE]

    http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB102856#fbid=R6OtCjImfV2
     
  19. ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #19
    They won't be sued over this. They will lose customers. They lost me. May not matter but I'm sure I'm not alone.

    They clearly state what is and isn't acceptable use for their DATA plans. They offer you a way to accomplish what you want via Tethering plans (which cost extra). I'm pretty certain that even had I stayed with them, eventually they'd find a way to shaft me on the AUP for the Tethering Plan too. Like offer a "Streaming Music Package" that is different from their standard Tethering package.

    This is how AT&T conducts business. This is how most of the US-based Telco's conduct business. People choose to accept these policies every time they run to buy the new shiny. If anything...we should be horse-whipped for paying to support their legal team each time we upgrade out of contract to a new iPhone.

    I'm not happy about it...but it's 100% legal, 100% within their contract terms and 100% defensible for them in court. We've got little to complain about and nothing of merit for a legal case.

    ----------

    Look, I'm done with you. You are delusional and have posted your own evidence twice but are too simple to understand what it means. I've bolded it for you a SECOND time. Please...you are embarrassing yourself. You are arguing "If you pay for a Tethering Plan, you should be able to Tether!" Nobody is debating that point.

    Nobody lied to me, nobody fooled me. You don't comprehend the difference between paying for a Tethering Plan and merely paying for an Unlimited Data plan. Once you do...feel free to rejoin the discussion.
     
  20. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #20
    You confuse me, you are saying that using a bluetooth speeker is tehering? Now if you used your phone as a modem and tethered then you need a tethering plan, You said you never tethered, did you lie?

    You said an att rep told you so.

    I showed you on their site what the definition of tethering is, and it is not using a bluetooth headset or speekers.

    Then you change your story and say it doesnt matter what they say is right and there is nothing we can do about it.

    Ok, so who is right? The rep who told you tethering is using bluetooth speekers, or the literature on the ATT website?

    Hmm I can tell you that the written word will hold up in court vs the spoken word.
     
  21. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #21
    Like anyone is going to take them to court and prove that he wasnt tethering but was using BT instead?
    Really?
    AT&T says you're tethering and switches your plan then I guess you're tethering.
    You can complain to them but if they dont want to change it or believe you then your only option is to stay with them and deal with their crap or leave.
    And the user above left and I would have also.
     
  22. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    #22
    Dude yes you did get lied to and fooled. ATT defines tethering as using your phone as a modem and you said you did not. They moved you into a tethering plan when you had not tetherd. then they told you "I used a Bluetooth-enabled Jambox by Jawbone (great speaker by the way). Since the Jambox is bluetooth connected, it has a MAC address (all BT devices do). This, according to the rep, constituted "tethering" " that is a lie, they define tethering as using your phone as a modem.

    Then you got fooled into canceling your plan and paying an ETF, when you didnt have to.

    How am I wrong here?

    ----------

    No you can go into arbitration, it doesnt cost that much and its part of the wireless agreement everyone here claims to know so much about.
     
  23. ReallyBigFeet macrumors 68030

    ReallyBigFeet

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    #23
    One last time in simple words:

    1) I had an Unlimited Data plan. I used it one month to stream Pandora to external speakers via Bluetooth.
    2) AT&T sent me a nastygram accusing me of using my data plan for Tethering. Tethering is NOT ALLOWED per their AUP UNLESS you pay for a TETHERING PLAN.
    3) AT&T asked me questions about how I was "tethering" my phone. I said I wasn't, just streaming Pandora via Bluetooth. They pointed me to their AUP and said "That's Tethering" They forced a Tethering data plan on me, canceling my grandfathered Unlimited plan and replacing it with a Data + Tethering (limited) plan instead.
    4) I researched it, saw they had every right to do what they did and canceled my AT&T contract, moved to Verizon.

    You were right.....you are confused. You keep trying to defend your position with a quote from their TETHERING plan. I'm guessing you don't know the difference between an Unlimited Data plan and a Tethering plan. Tethering plans allow for, you know...Tethering. Choose whatever definition you want. Unlimited Data plans do not allow ANY Tethering.

    As for lying....its often the case that the simple minded obfuscate their lack of knowledge by pointing fingers at the rational mind.
     
  24. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #24
    I never heard of that process before.
    Is it a pain to deal with and would it accomplish anything in the end?
    What would the cost of that be?
     
  25. chakraj macrumors 65816

    chakraj

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    So Cal
    #25
    Dude, you are so confused.

    1. You did not use your device as a modem. so you did not need a tethering plan. How does that have anything to do with unlimited data?

    They insisted you did tether and you said you did not.

    Then you said I used my jambox, and the rep told you that was tethering, as per ATT that is not tethering.

    Yes you can use their definition of tethering from their web site.

    I have showed you were they define tethering as using your phone as a modem. I will agree that the definition of tetheriong per ATT is using a bluetooth speeker if you can show me where it says that in writing, not hearsay from a rep.

    I understand unlimited data, and tethering, I have both and pay for both. Unlimited both.

    This is from the ATT website
    An overview of device tethering

    Tethering lets you use your smartphone as a wireless modem or mobile hotspot for your PC or Wi-Fi-capable device. With a qualified data plan that includes tethering, you get full access to the Internet and your email when you connect your device to your laptop via Bluetooth or USB cable.

    Linky;http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB102856#fbid=R6OtCjImfV2


    Now you show me where it says what you think.
     

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