CAN YOUR IMAC G5 REALLY BURN A DVD AT 4x ???????????

mrwonkers

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 31, 2004
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Cyberia
I am using an imac G5 17" 1.8 model.
Using toast 6.5 under os 10.3.6 using A GRADE blank DVD's Taost says it will take around 13 minutes to record a full DVD however the clock goes very slowly.........I have found using many different 4x Media that the scenario is the same........In reality it takes about double the time toast says it is going to take to burn the disc....around 26 minutes...

IS THIS BURNER the Matshita UJ-825 only capable of burning at 2x hmmmmm.......This is a very UnSuperdrive Indeed.......

Using a pioneer 108 on external firewire on the same system the same disc does indeed complete in around 13 mins.........

I'm interested if this issue is prevelant with other iMac owners machines.
I'll be calling apple either way as I believe I paid for a 4 x burner.....not some crippled pseudo super drive..............
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
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mrwonkers said:
I'm interested if this issue is prevelant with other iMac owners machines.
I'll be calling apple either way as I believe I paid for a 4 x burner.....not some crippled pseudo super drive..............
It definitely might be the particular brand of media you're using, these drives are the same ones used in PowerBooks and they are very picky about media for getting a 4X DVD burn. The iMac is probably even worse because the disc rotational plane is not horizontal. One guy said he had success with:

-- Verbatim item number 934375
-- Fuji blue packaging, no ID no. that I could find except bar code numbers :74101 75241

and had failure with:

-- Sony in yellow packaging, DMR47L1

Try one of those media and also try a burn with the iMac completely flat (horizontal) as a test.

Now the moniker "SuperDrive" does not, itself, denote any particular speed. It simply means the drive reads and burns both CD and DVD media. However, Apple specifically states that it is a 4x SuperDrive in the iMac G5, so if you can't find any media that will burn at 4x then I think you have a legitimate gripe. However, I've seen lots of drives, both CD and DVD, where the trick is to find the right media that it happens to like. It's not always the most expensive either, it can be very random. FWIW, I've had very good luck with various TDK media over the years.
 

OziMac

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2003
435
2
I hardly think it's good enough for even some media not to burn at 4x in a drive that's advertised as such.

Both the Powerbooks and iMacs suffer from this - I've yet to find any media, cheap or pricey, that gets to 4x, including Apple's own. Simply not good enough.
 

Cybernanga

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2004
201
0
Essex, United Kingdom
OziMac said:
I hardly think it's good enough for even some media not to burn at 4x in a drive that's advertised as such.

Both the Powerbooks and iMacs suffer from this - I've yet to find any media, cheap or pricey, that gets to 4x, including Apple's own. Simply not good enough.
It definately depends on the quality of disk that you use.

The advertise them as 4x because they can burn at 4x, however they will burn at a slower rate if the drive senses that the disk quality would fubar your data by burning at the higher speed.

Your complaint is rather like expecting a car to drive around at permanent top speed, you have to slow down to compensate for conditions i.e bad road surface, poor visibility, traffic etc :)
 

Jovian9

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Feb 19, 2003
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Planet Zebes
I've had this problem with both my 17" iMac G4 and now with my 17" iMac G5. I assumed it was Toast b/c I've used LOTS of different types of media (from generic to brand name). In Toast 6 it will burn but takes about the same amount of time to burn as setting it to 2X. In Toast 5 I usually get an error and it ruins the dvd-r. Glad to finally know what the problem is....not glad to know that my drive is that picky.
 

mrwonkers

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Original poster
Oct 31, 2004
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Cyberia
Cybernanga said:
It definately depends on the quality of disk that you use.

The advertise them as 4x because they can burn at 4x, however they will burn at a slower rate if the drive senses that the disk quality would fubar your data by burning at the higher speed.

Your complaint is rather like expecting a car to drive around at permanent top speed, you have to slow down to compensate for conditions i.e bad road surface, poor visibility, traffic etc :)
Theres nothing worse than some lame car analogy........>P lease......
I have tried all name brands of 4x media available and none will burn at 4x (only at 2x) yet as I say when I hook up an external burner namely the pioneer108 via firewwire these same discs achieve 4x burn........


Apple market the imac as having a 4 x burner......
Which I believe to be true........but whats the point of having a 4x burner if as another person said earlier in this thread that the burners max speed is crippled by the fact that it is mounted on its side.

This is an example of Apples marketing department doing a giant pinnochio.........naughty naughty punkass marketing execs.......

hmmmmm...... :mad:
 

Nermal

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Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
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New Zealand
HiRez said:
FWIW, I've had very good luck with various TDK media over the years.
Interestingly, I avoid TDK media because my Apple-supplied Combo drive (Hitachi/LG GCC-4480B) refuses to read it :eek: - not an intermittent problem either, it simply will not read ANY 'TDK Gold' CD-Rs (although my Pioneer 106 in the same computer works fine, as did the combo drive in my iBook, which I originally made them with). Wow, that was a long sentence :eek:
 

justinshiding

macrumors member
May 7, 2004
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Chicago, IL
I'm going to guess it's the media that you're using. I have a 8X+/-R burner ...and it takes about that long (~25 minutes) to burn a dvd. I'm using 4x media , but even still it shouldn't take that long. I'm using memorex + R discs....Honestly I never thought much of it. As long as it isn't wasting discs I'm fine with it :).

Justin
 

OziMac

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2003
435
2
Cybernanga said:
It definately depends on the quality of disk that you use.

The advertise them as 4x because they can burn at 4x, however they will burn at a slower rate if the drive senses that the disk quality would fubar your data by burning at the higher speed.

Your complaint is rather like expecting a car to drive around at permanent top speed, you have to slow down to compensate for conditions i.e bad road surface, poor visibility, traffic etc :)
With all due respect, Cybernanga, that has got to be the funniest analogy I've ever heard - because it has no correlation at all with reality. :)

If you want to correct it, how about imagining a car that, despite normal fuel consumption and pedal usage, will run at 50 km/h on a freeway when it should be doing 100 km/h - because your car doesn't like the fuel you use, whilst other cars have no problem whatsoever with it. In such a scenario, I would never use that kind of fuel again (no matter how widely it was available - cf the wide availability of reasonably priced DVDs), and would desperately be searching for fuel that would allow me to use my car at a proper speed/consumption. I would be most annoyed if I could not find this 'magic' fuel.

Even if 4x burning was possible with Apple's own too-expensive media, this would probably be a passable lie - but it doesn't. Notwithstanding the fact that people who do lots of DVD burning will buy cheaper (but not necessarily trashy) media rated at the speed they require. It's not our responsibility to be testing different media to see if they work as expected in our drives - especially when they work fine in other drives. And maxing out at 2x burning (and I don't just mean the iMac superdrive, which has its own vertical-mounting issues) when other drives are hitting 16x comfortably is simply not good enough.

:)
 

paxtonandrew

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May 10, 2004
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I Come From A Land Down Under
Nermal said:
Interestingly, I avoid TDK media because my Apple-supplied Combo drive (Hitachi/LG GCC-4480B) refuses to read it :eek: - not an intermittent problem either, it simply will not read ANY 'TDK Gold' CD-Rs (although my Pioneer 106 in the same computer works fine, as did the combo drive in my iBook, which I originally made them with). Wow, that was a long sentence :eek:
Interesting, My PowerBook CD/R and PowerMac CD/R's both read TDK, and that is what I frequently use in the drives. I have had a lot of trouble with no-name brands that I pick up for $10 dollars for a spindle of 50. Kodak are IMHO still the best brand of Blank media, but like everything Kodak, overpriced.
 

Nermal

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Dec 7, 2002
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I usually buy Verbatim CD-Rs now, because that what Apple sells in their online store, and they're not too much more expensive than generics.
 

zakee00

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2004
243
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Anchorage, Alaska
haha i get the cheap-o $2 for 100 spindles at compusa with mail in rebate.:D they work fine in my powerbook, haven't had any issues with them so far. i give out cd's like candy to friends, and as far as i know they work ok. dvd's are another issue however. i'm stuck with a 1x superdrive, it takes FOR-EVER to burn dvd's :eek: . i want to shoot apple for ever using something so slow lol. it seems like they are never up to par as far as cd/dvd burners go. WHEN will they start putting -/+ burners, let alone DL -/+ burners in they're computers?
oh well
 

jared_kipe

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2003
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Seattle
I really don't know how fast my 4x superdrive goes, but isn't burning almost 5GB of data in 26 min good enough? Picky people ;)
 

OziMac

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2003
435
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jared_kipe said:
I really don't know how fast my 4x superdrive goes, but isn't burning almost 5GB of data in 26 min good enough? Picky people ;)
Well, we make good with what we can of course - but for example, when you've got to burn 50 odd disc images, the faster you can get the better! (especially when you've paid for that privilege) :)
 

weckart

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Nov 7, 2004
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zakee00 said:
WHEN will they start putting -/+ burners, let alone DL -/+ burners in they're computers?
oh well

NEWSFLASH! They already have, or was the DVD+RW disk I burnt on my PB 1.5 a figment of my imagination? ;)

Don't believe me? Open a terminal, type 'drutil info' and marvel. I get this:

Vendor Product Rev
MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-825 DAM5

Interconnect: ATAPI
SupportLevel: Apple Shipping
Cache: 2048k
CD-Write: -R, -RW, BUFE, CDText, Test, IndexPts, ISRC
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, BUFE, Test
Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, DVD-DAO


With regard to the 4x issue, this has been raked over so many times already. The Superdrives only burn at 4x with Apple media, otherwise they revert to 2x. There may be other media which confuse the firmware into thinking it is dealing with Apple DVD blanks and will also burn at 4x. All in all it is a firmware issue or a "feature" whichever you prefer, and yes, it sucks.
 

daggle

macrumors newbie
Oct 20, 2004
14
0
Following weckart's suggestion, the drutil info my iMac G5 stated:

Vendor Product Rev
MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-825 DBN7

Interconnect: ATAPI
SupportLevel: Apple Shipping
Cache: 2048k
CD-Write: -R, -RW, BUFE, CDText, Test, IndexPts, ISRC
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, BUFE, Test
Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, DVD-DAO
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
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weckart said:
With regard to the 4x issue, this has been raked over so many times already. The Superdrives only burn at 4x with Apple media, otherwise they revert to 2x. There may be other media which confuse the firmware into thinking it is dealing with Apple DVD blanks and will also burn at 4x. All in all it is a firmware issue or a "feature" whichever you prefer, and yes, it sucks.
Hmm I dunno, I have never heard that charge before...and a guy in this thread said he specifically tried Apple media with 2X results. Because of that I'd say he has a legitimate beef: if the company's own media won't operate at the speed they say it will, that's definitely grounds for complaint (replacement). Try an Apple disc and then you'll know for sure.
 

pakmn

macrumors newbie
Nov 26, 2004
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Sorry to bring this thread out of the archives....

weckart said:
With regard to the 4x issue, this has been raked over so many times already. The Superdrives only burn at 4x with Apple media, otherwise they revert to 2x. There may be other media which confuse the firmware into thinking it is dealing with Apple DVD blanks and will also burn at 4x. All in all it is a firmware issue or a "feature" whichever you prefer, and yes, it sucks.
Do you mean just on the iMac G5?
I have the 1.8 SP G5 tower with the PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-106D, and I can burn 4X no problem with no name brand 4X capable DVD-R.

Now back to the question at hand
Has anybody had any success burning DVDs at 4X on the iMac G5? My brother just got the 20" iMac G5 and using the same discs that I get 4X (12.5 mins) on he only gets 2X (27 mins). The 20" iMac G5 has the slot load MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-825. I've heard that Verbatim, which is what the apple brand is, is the only brand getting 4X. Is that true? Anyone know of another brand that has had success? Does tilting the machine to a horizontal plane actually help in getting higher speeds?

Thanks
 

Timelessblur

macrumors 65816
Jun 26, 2004
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well from what it seems no here understands how it works. It can only really burn at 4x close to the end of the burn. The disk spans at speed X but the close the burn is to the center the slow the disce is moving at that point. At the out edge of the DVD it more than likely going to be a little over 4x. the father from the center the lazer is burning the faster it is going to burn. 4x is just basicly the max speed at the out side of the disk but on the insided it going to be a lost slower
 

tdhurst

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Dec 27, 2003
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Whiner

mrwonkers said:
Theres nothing worse than some lame car analogy........>P lease......
I have tried all name brands of 4x media available and none will burn at 4x (only at 2x) yet as I say when I hook up an external burner namely the pioneer108 via firewwire these same discs achieve 4x burn........


Apple market the imac as having a 4 x burner......
Which I believe to be true........but whats the point of having a 4x burner if as another person said earlier in this thread that the burners max speed is crippled by the fact that it is mounted on its side.

This is an example of Apples marketing department doing a giant pinnochio.........naughty naughty punkass marketing execs.......

hmmmmm...... :mad:
Okay, give me your iMac. I'll make do with it's "shortcomings".
 

maya

macrumors 68040
Oct 7, 2004
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somewhere between here and there.
Okay I have no clue what you all are talking about it takes about ~28 minutes to burn a 4.4Gig DVD on the new iMac G5. I know this since I tried a no name DVD 4x Speed 4.7Gig DVD disc and it worked.

Total cost per blank 4x DVD was $0.53 Canadian Dollars, that is with tax included. The first DVD was a coster however I look at the disc and it had a dye spill (manufacturing defect), I check all the rest and were perfect. I burned a 4.4Gigs worth of data in toast and it took ~28 minutes.

Again at $0.53 Canadian Dollars I could care less that one was defective and yes it did burn at 4x. I believe the Apple branded DVD discs are pricey for no reason. Money maker. :p

Anyhow I am happy that the iMac G5 reads and writes my choice of DVD media at 53 cents Canadian who can complain. ;) :) <--- for all the americans that is about 33 cents US per DVD. :D

If you can find cheaper DVD media that will work in the Apple SuperDrive I would like to see and hear about it. :)
 

maya

macrumors 68040
Oct 7, 2004
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somewhere between here and there.
pakmn said:
Sorry to bring this thread out of the archives....



Do you mean just on the iMac G5?
I have the 1.8 SP G5 tower with the PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-106D, and I can burn 4X no problem with no name brand 4X capable DVD-R.

Now back to the question at hand
Has anybody had any success burning DVDs at 4X on the iMac G5? My brother just got the 20" iMac G5 and using the same discs that I get 4X (12.5 mins) on he only gets 2X (27 mins). The 20" iMac G5 has the slot load MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-825. I've heard that Verbatim, which is what the apple brand is, is the only brand getting 4X. Is that true? Anyone know of another brand that has had success? Does tilting the machine to a horizontal plane actually help in getting higher speeds?

Thanks
If I am not mistaken the DVD write speed and time goes as such:

All are with a full 4.4 Gigs of data on a DVD 4.7:

16x DVD+/-R = ~6 minutes
8x DVD+/-R = ~12 minutes
4x DVD+/-R = ~24 minutes
2x DVD +/-R = ~48 minutes
1x DVD +/-R = ~96 minutes

If you have less data it is obvious the time to burn will be less. :)


By the way you do realize that your PMG5 SP has an 8x and the iMac G5 has a 4x right. From what you have stated it seems that your 12 minute burn will coincide with the 8x as you do have and your brothers iMac G5 comes in at double that speed which coincides with the 4x. So there is nothing wrong with the SuperDrive. Could be the media that is multi speed, since some manufactures label the speed of the DVD that will burn at the most accurate speed rate.
 

Jovian9

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Feb 19, 2003
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m a y a said:
If I am not mistaken the DVD write speed and time goes as such:

All are with a full 4.4 Gigs of data on a DVD 4.7:

16x DVD+/-R = ~6 minutes
8x DVD+/-R = ~12 minutes
4x DVD+/-R = ~24 minutes
2x DVD +/-R = ~48 minutes
1x DVD +/-R = ~96 minutes

If you have less data it is obvious the time to burn will be less. :)


By the way you do realize that your PMG5 SP has an 8x and the iMac G5 has a 4x right. From what you have stated it seems that your 12 minute burn will coincide with the 8x as you do have and your brothers iMac G5 comes in at double that speed which coincides with the 4x. So there is nothing wrong with the SuperDrive. Could be the media that is multi speed, since some manufactures label the speed of the DVD that will burn at the most accurate speed rate.
I burn DVD-R's (that are filled) at 2X speed in ~ 24 minutes in Toast (that is the max speed of my PowerBook DVD burner). So 4X should be ~ 12 minutes and 8X should be ~ 6 minutes.
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
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I just found a package of TDK CD-Rs that claim to burn at 16x, and they do. They were found under someone's desk around the house...

They do burn at 16x, interestingly enough, in the PowerBook.

It is hit and miss until you find the right media that works in your computer.
 

maya

macrumors 68040
Oct 7, 2004
3,225
0
somewhere between here and there.
Jovian9 said:
I burn DVD-R's (that are filled) at 2X speed in ~ 24 minutes in Toast (that is the max speed of my PowerBook DVD burner). So 4X should be ~ 12 minutes and 8X should be ~ 6 minutes.
You might have a 2x DVD burner however its weird that its burning at 4x speed. :confused: