Canada: Weed legalization is boosting police budgets across Canada

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    Not only did Trudeau and his government screw up the legalisation of cannabis in Canada, they also insured that their police state would grow, right along with the crony corporatism they enshrined into law. They created a horrid mish mash of laws across the provinces and made some entirely new and draconian laws to go along with their plans, but somehow ensured that the police would get a huge increase in money and powers, (despite the law supposedly making things easier for them, as they would no longer have to go after pot smokers). They could have looked South to Colorado and the other Western states in the US that had legalised for recreational use, but they didn't. The longtime cannabis activists in Canada warned everyone that things weren't what they seemed. No-one wanted to listen.

    https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article...to-be-a-boon-for-police-budgets-across-canada

    Read the rest at the link
     
  2. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #2
    The only blame I would put on Trudeau's government is in the health and safety side of things. I think the idea was to treat it's sale, distribution and possession the same as alcohol is done (within the particular provinces) however that didn't play well with a lot of provinces... to top it off in Ontario we got a new Premier (in July) who completely changed the direction of the distribution channels. Check out the website OCS.ca ... and look at the difference in the liquor control board (lcbo.com) which was the previous governments venue of choice both for brick and mortar shops and online purchases. Currently that first website is the only way for Ontarian's to legally purchase recreational cannabis products... and technically Ontario hasn't passed the law yet to make it legal!

    There's certainly a cluster *^#@ of rules for each province right now, but that's the way the provinces wanted it, and they were rushing through the process in order to get the tax revenue. The mad dash for cannabis cash!

    As for the spending on the 'police state' I wouldn't go that far. I think the most I've seen is that it will cost around $500M in both training and equipment for sobriety checks, inspection and enforcement. To put that into perspective, Toronto's police budget is $1B. So it's not as jackbooted authoritarian as Vice makes it sound. It's not going to be a smooth ride for these regulations; analysts are saying lawyers and the public coffers are going to be the big winners in the onset, but it will smooth out in a few years.
     
  3. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I've said it so many times, "legalizing" pot is an absurd idea. This just gives the government even more control over a plant in the ground and broadens their ability to regulate over it. If a government wants to be honest and decent, just scratch out any laws that said it's "illegal" and be done with it. Have no say over what plant someone wants to grow in their yard.
     
  4. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    Here's some "crimes" and fines from Manitoba. A real money grab out there.

    Some fines for new marijuana offences:

    • $2,542: Supplying cannabis to a young person under age 19
    • $2,542: Growing non-medical cannabis in a residence in Manitoba
    • $672: Smoking or vaping cannabis in provincial parks
    • $672: Smoking or vaping cannabis in a public place
    • $237: Driver carrying cannabis in or on vehicle (same fine for off-road vehicles)
    • $672: Consuming cannabis in or on vehicle on a highway
    • $672: Consuming cannabis in or on off-road vehicle
    --- Post Merged, Oct 17, 2018 ---
    A little commentary from the Princess of Pot, Jodie Emery. (The video is at the link, MR doesn't embed Twitter video).

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1052671773571932160
     
  5. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #5
  6. Number-Six macrumors 6502

    Number-Six

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    I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is, but A quick google search tells me that the fine for driving while impaired from alcohol is a minimum of $1000 in Manitoba.

    About the video, i don't know who that is, but considering legal pot in Quebec is around $5.25 a gram ("high quality"), she lies when she talks about over inflated prices.

    According to the Statistics Canada, on average, the price of pot on the black market was around $6.83 per gram.
     
  7. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #7
    The fine for cannabis is not the same as for alcohol. You can be fined in Manitoba, (and other places) for just sitting in your car while smoking or already stoned, without driving at all.

    As for Jodie's video, I will take her word for it over yours. She's been in the pot business for ages (I'd suggest you look up Cannabis Culture) and has been a prime mover of the Canadian legalisation movement, along with her husband Marc and others like Dana Larsen.
     
  8. Rum_Becker Suspended

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    #8
    Which is the same if you are drunk in your car or drinking in a parked car. People have been found guilty of drinking and driving after being found sleeping drunk in their car.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/theo-sarantis/driving-drunk_b_1837156.html
     
  9. iTurbo macrumors 6502

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    #9
    As an American, I have nothing to say because this is Canada's issue to deal with. Good for them.
     
  10. Number-Six macrumors 6502

    Number-Six

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    #10
    You can take the word of anyone you want.

    Or you could actually search for information yourself.
     
  11. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    #11
    Yep - 100% agree here. Legalizing is NOT a good idea. Decriminalizing IS the right choice. Its just aplant for Chrissakes. Get over it. It should be able to be grown right next to my tomato plants. ;)
     
  12. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #12
    This is the primary motivation for legalizing pot. It is simply another way for government to take in more money with little to no opposition.
     
  13. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    Well Bill Blair (former Toronto police chief) was the MP in charge of the cannabis legalization in Canada. The idea he presented last night in a televised interview (sorry no link... so I may misquote) he said that 'the longstanding policy of making consumption illegal never worked to stem the demand or did much for the supply of cannabis, enforcing that law cost real dollars in terms of policing, and other costs like the impact of a criminal record for simple possession'. ...He opened up a can of worms there for other activities that are currently illegal *cough*prostitution*cough*... but that's another story.

    Canada's stance has been fairly strict on the sale of intoxicants, what they are trying to do (IMHO) is to open up the possibility that cannabis consumption can be used responsibly in a manner that has no greater damaging impact then the consumption of alcohol. (With the recognition that there is still some abuse or societal harm from it's consumption). The government doesn't ever want to have the pendulum swing wildly on this issue, and so they are being cautious in opening the flood gates. However each province wanted to dictate the terms and conditions and decide on their own the limits to put in place. In the next decade we'll see a lot more smoothing out of the differences between provincal laws.

    So in short, there were many good reasons to relax the laws regarding cannabis consumption, and yes tax revenue was one of them.
     
  14. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    The government has been spending money on a fruitless effort to suppress cannabis, including the cost of imprisoning people for just having a little stuff on them. They already tax alcohol, and just about everything else, so why should they not tax retail sales of weed?
     
  15. ucfgrad93, Oct 18, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #15
    They could have simply decriminalized it. But no, lets legalize it and tax the crap out of it. Interesting article, shows that many people still buy it illegally.

    https://www.westword.com/marijuana/...answers-questions-about-marijuana-use-9070628
     
  16. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    There are many issues at play here. In the states the have legalized it, you cannot just walk into a Ralph's and buy some weed. You have to find the local cannabis retailer, as you might expect. Which is not particularly difficult – if there actually is one. The states that have legalized still leave it up to the county or municipality whether to license a dispensary. There have been very large swaths of Colorado, Oregon and Washington where you simply cannot find a place that sells, and those states are not small in terms of how far you have to go to get somewhere. Much easier to find Dave down on meadow lane, like you had been doing before.

    And prices are fluid, reacting to supply/demand curves. A few years ago, Washington experienced an oversupply situation that pushed retail down to about the same price as street. Taxes as surcharges do not set a bottom price, they just take a cut, which means the price can go quite low.

    But most illegal sales are not like they used to be. Dave has lights in the garage, where he grows his crop. He will be happy to use your money to fund his little farm. But, as far as I can tell, it is mostly not imported by organized crime, because the prime market is not there for them anymore – yeah, they have coke and heroin and such, but I suspect that legalized cannabis may be having an inverse “gateway drug” effect.

    The experiment is less than six years along. There will be changes to the overall dynamic over the next six years, especially if the Shumer and company get enough traction in Congress that they can take it off Schedule I. And even the states will adapt, adjusting their tax rates to optimize legal sales. It takes time for these things to even out, but I would much rather have it legal and taxed than not quite illegal but not quite not.
     
  17. statik13 macrumors regular

    statik13

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    You do realize that They did make it legal to grow four plants per household right? As for government taxing it? I’d rather the money go there instead of criminals pocketing it.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 18, 2018 ---
    *ahem* I would like to congratulate drugs on winning the war against drugs. Job well done. Thank you.
     
  18. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Ohhhh, sorry. Guess I missed that. The benevolent government now allows people to grow a strictly regulated certain number of plants on their private property. Also, 7 tomato plants and 3 apple trees.

    You realize criminals are only "criminals" because of bad laws, right? If criminality wasn't a thing in any way related to pot, not a single criminal would be pocketing money from it. Just private individuals trading among one another.

    Although it is funny that you seem to draw a distinction between "government" and "criminals."
     
  19. statik13 macrumors regular

    statik13

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    #19
    Assuming you are American here... And how many pot plants does your government let you grow?
     
  20. KGB7 Suspended

    KGB7

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    #20
    Chill dude. It will take time for a country to settle down and implement proper laws. Rome wasn’t built in a day and this will to take time. Canada is in uncharted waters. Let’s revisit the subject 5 or 10 years from now.
     
  21. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    You can tell I'm American because I would never sincerely use a statement like "how many pot plants does your government let you grow."
     
  22. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #22
    But then they can’t tax it ;).

    Rather strange fines there. You’d think smoking pot in a car would be a higher fine than just smoking in public or a park.

    If you can’t drive with cannabis in your car, how do you transport it?
     
  23. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    It is the same as with alcohol: you can have it in an unopened container (that you, like, just bought, sealed) or you can have it in an inaccessible location (like your trunk or the toolbox in the bed).
     
  24. KGB7 Suspended

    KGB7

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    #24
    Use Uber or Amazon drones. :D

    I used to be an Uber “partner “, driver. I, and many drivers, have taken passengers to dealers house to pick up drugs in Washington DC area.


    https://uberpeople.net/ I used to be an active member on the forum. Met many members in persons, and the stories are every bit true. I’ve yelled at customers at the top of my lungs “Get the ef out!”.

    Anyways. Where there is a will, there is a way to legally drive home with a joint.
     
  25. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #25


    Regulation is not a bad word. We regulate the foods we eat, a lot of that is to protect consumers. As pointed out, it's a plant and like any other plant that is sold, it too is regulated. You can make arguments about aspects of regulations but that still doesn't make regulations as a whole a bad idea. As a consumer of pot, Id far rather have it regulated with rules regarding the types of pesticides that are used in it's growth, just like any other plant Id put in my body. Id rather a business owner and the gov make money and collect taxes then the shady drug dealer down the street who could not only put others into a bad situation but rip me off on my product and money. Id rather try to limit the access to teens the decriminalization would not address. Id rather have be a user who can legally use it than to worry about breaking the law. Decriminalization wouldn't allow for the opportunity for businesses to thrive and grow that legalization allows for.


    If you want to make an argument against the role gov plays, make an actual argument. Some generic I hate "gov rabble rabble rabble" is not a valid argument. Simple decriminalization does not actually address the issues that actual legalization does.
     

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