Capitalism is destructive to American economy.

PracticalMac

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Capitalism is destructive to American economy.
Seems counter-intuitive doesn't it?

The issue is profit driven motives that put the profit far above everything else, compounded by "activist investors" who hi-jack profitable business and force them to be more profitable by slashing expenses and employees, then sell the "investment" at profit and leave the shell of company to wither.

This has been seen quite often, and the CEO of Panera Bread, Ron Shaich, experienced first hand.
He also believes this behavior is a major reason for the decline in medium income and stagnant wage growth (actually declining).
And what drove millions to vote for someone (#45) who they hoped would force a change and help them finally regain the paying jobs they once had.

Ron Shaich says that, basically, more regulation is needed to prevent profit centric business and force business to long term goals over short term profits.

Full article is here on New Yorker.
 
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niji

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Feb 9, 2003
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capitalism has been the route through which millions of people have been able to reach a level of stability that allowed them to be productive and secure. whether it be UK in the 1800's, or China in the 1990's.
i believe that age is now about to end.
the new age that the (new) socialists in the USA are projecting is a budding platform that will become the new vehicle for millions and millions more people to reach unprecedented levels of freedom and security.
we have trump to thank for the coming 2020 blue tsunami that the 2018 blue wave forecasts.
 

BorderingOn

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None of the success described in that story would have been possible without capitalism. Also, capitalism and the stock market are NOT one and the same. Plenty of companies are private.

That said, I do believe there need to be more rules around public investing.
 
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jkcerda

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Only the poor practice capitalism in America, the rest practice corporatism there’s a difference
At any rate we are better off than France just look at what’s happening over there
 

PracticalMac

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None of the success described in that story would have been possible without capitalism. Also, capitalism and the stock market are NOT one and the same. Plenty of companies are private.

That said, I do believe there need to be more rules around public investing.
History of unfettered capitalism has left much destruction in its path.
While it is true about it driving innovation and growth, success is not even and the profit not evenly shared.

There was a time when there was practically no control on business, the "free markets" and Lazzie-fair belief just before turn of 1900's.

We both agree on need to regulate its process.

I do believe Stocks and like investments are a function of capitalism, allowing others hop on the success of a company. Stocks are another way to make money, thus capitalism. Well, devil in details.
[doublepost=1543213217][/doublepost]
Only the poor practice capitalism in America, the rest practice corporatism there’s a difference
Do explain, please.
 

Eraserhead

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Only the poor practice capitalism in America, the rest practice corporatism there’s a difference
At any rate we are better off than France just look at what’s happening over there
I don’t think American quality of life is higher than French quality of life.

For the poorest half, or maybe even more life in modern America is pretty awful.
 
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jkcerda

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History of unfettered capitalism has left much destruction in its path.
While it is true about it driving innovation and growth, success is not even and the profit not evenly shared.

There was a time when there was practically no control on business, the "free markets" and Lazzie-fair belief just before turn of 1900's.

We both agree on need to regulate its process.

I do believe Stocks and like investments are a function of capitalism, allowing others hop on the success of a company. Stocks are another way to make money, thus capitalism. Well, devil in details.
[doublepost=1543213217][/doublepost]

Do explain, please.
There is a thread on it. Riots in France
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/protests-in-france-over-taxes-tariffs.2156846/
 

s2mikey

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None of the success described in that story would have been possible without capitalism. Also, capitalism and the stock market are NOT one and the same. Plenty of companies are private.

That said, I do believe there need to be more rules around public investing.
Agreed - crony-capitalism and its variants do suck. Id also like to see the Wall Street shiesters reigned in more. Like to see capital gains taxed at a higher rate, especially when it involves large amounts of gains as in the kinds of deals that the investment shiesters are famous for. Otherwise, capitalism has brought more people out of poverty & into the comfortable living class than every left-wing idea combined. It isnt even close, really.

Most left-wing *solutions* keep people poor & subservant to the Govt or steal from productive people. Thats all crap, sorry.
 

samcraig

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Jun 22, 2009
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Most left-wing *solutions* keep people poor & subservant to the Govt or steal from productive people. Thats all crap, sorry.
Flawed logic. Rewarding the 1% and screwing over everyone else via this idea of "trickle down" is BS. The economy succeeds more when everyone (or majority) succeeds. LOL @ stealing from productive people. Charming!
 
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s2mikey

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Flawed logic. Rewarding the 1% and screwing over everyone else via this idea of "trickle down" is BS. The economy succeeds more when everyone (or majority) succeeds. LOL @ stealing from productive people. Charming!
Sam - thats not really accurate. C'mon man. I did say I hate crony-capitalism and I also despise backdoor deals, tax evasion and all the other "rich guy tricks". I really do. But, I have a comfortable living and it is 100% due to capitalism and the profits which are generated from it. Socialism and/or communism certainly didnt help me get my current job. My job was created due to someone taking a business risk and required people to perform tasks for them to help make that business work. So, I perform said tasks along with others I work with and we get paid . Not being a smart-arse here, just being honest. Thats how free markets and capitalism work. Its actually really good for most folks.

So, why would you say that most people arent succeeding? The economy is doing pretty well right now. Plenty of people are working and living their lives with some semblance of comfort and happiness. Sure, some folks fall on hard times but is that capitalisms fault? I dont believe it is and I certainly dont think socialism will fix anything. That just guarantees misery for all but the select few that "run" things.

And yes, heavy taxation which effects every person that earns money does start to become theft if it gets excessive. Why should I have to hand over a large portion of my modest income to give stuff to some other guy that didnt earn it? Whats that all about?
 
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jkcerda

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Sam - thats not really accurate. C'mon man. I did say I hate crony-capitalism and I also despise backdoor deals, tax evasion and all the other "rich guy tricks". I really do. But, I have a comfortable living and it is 100% due to capitalism and the profits which are generated from it. Socialism and/or communism certainly didnt help me get my current job. My job was created due to someone taking a business risk and required people to perform tasks for them to help make that business work. So, I perform said tasks along with others I work with and we get paid . Not being a smart-arse here, just being honest. Thats how free markets and capitalism work. Its actually really good for most folks.

So, why would you say that most people arent succeeding? The economy is doing pretty well right now. Plenty of people are working and living their lives with some semblance of comfort and happiness. Sure, some folks fall on ghard times but is that capitalisms fault? I dont believe it is and I certainly dont think socialism will fix anything. That just guarantees misery for all but the selct few that "run" things.

And yes, heavy taxation whioch effects every person that earns money does start to become theft if it gets excessive. Why should I have to hand over a lareg portion of my modest income to give stuff to some other guy that didnt earn it? Whats that all about?
we should be more like France,,,,,,,,,,,, and riot when we can't even afford food thanks to how bad we are being taxed.
 

samcraig

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Jun 22, 2009
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Sam - thats not really accurate. C'mon man. I did say I hate crony-capitalism and I also despise backdoor deals, tax evasion and all the other "rich guy tricks". I really do. But, I have a comfortable living and it is 100% due to capitalism and the profits which are generated from it. Socialism and/or communism certainly didnt help me get my current job. My job was created due to someone taking a business risk and required people to perform tasks for them to help make that business work. So, I perform said tasks along with others I work with and we get paid . Not being a smart-arse here, just being honest. Thats how free markets and capitalism work. Its actually really good for most folks.

So, why would you say that most people arent succeeding? The economy is doing pretty well right now. Plenty of people are working and living their lives with some semblance of comfort and happiness. Sure, some folks fall on hard times but is that capitalisms fault? I dont believe it is and I certainly dont think socialism will fix anything. That just guarantees misery for all but the select few that "run" things.

And yes, heavy taxation which effects every person that earns money does start to become theft if it gets excessive. Why should I have to hand over a large portion of my modest income to give stuff to some other guy that didnt earn it? Whats that all about?
Thanks for your post. I never said Capitalism isn't good. And I wasn't advocating for socialism. What I was saying is that our system is clearly broken. You don't want to boost others with your tax dollars via social programs? Unfortunately in this country, we don't get a lot of say HOW our tax dollars are spent. Not really. We both pay for things the other doesn't want. I wouldn't call either "theft." For our country to work (in total) everyone should participate. And that means paying taxes. And that the heavier burden should not be on those that cannot afford it. I don't begrudge those that are very successful. Not those that earned it through hard work (let's face it though - there are many who haven't). I'm not in favor of a system that continues to reward those that have done well at the expense of those working hard.

I never said most aren't succeeding. What I said that when you lift the tide, the entire country does better. The loss of the true middle class has certainly affected our economy.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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Flawed logic. Rewarding the 1% and screwing over everyone else via this idea of "trickle down" is BS. The economy succeeds more when everyone (or majority) succeeds. LOL @ stealing from productive people. Charming!
Right, but then globalization happened and our country has to compete with other countries who don't have child labor laws, or very lax labor laws and hence we're at a disadvantage. Make the playing field level across the globe and we can return to such a time. Or convince everyone in America to pay more for everything for the good of all Americans, but they can't. Because when they say OK, the next day they're at WalMart.
 

jkcerda

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Right, but then globalization happened and our country has to compete with other countries who don't have child labor laws, or very lax labor laws and hence we're at a disadvantage. Make the playing field level across the globe and we can return to such a time. Or convince everyone in America to pay more for everything for the good of all Americans, but they can't. Because when they say OK, the next day they're at WalMart.
I don't see a way to level the playing field across the globe. love walmart.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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Jun 4, 2008
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I don't see a way to level the playing field across the globe. love walmart.
Neither do I, so then the conversation should shift to Americans paying X percentage more for their goods in order to ensure a standard of living. Problem is that would be argued as regressive by the left. I'm all for a livable wage, one way or another we're subsidizing the workers of Walmart/McDonalds.
 

Raid

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It is unchecked capitalism that is destructive, just like unchecked socialism is destructive. Corporatism like @jkcerda said is one of the bigger problems, however today's breaking news about 8 GM plant closures is more of an example of capitalist behaviour rather than corporatist.
 

jkcerda

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Neither do I, so then the conversation should shift to Americans paying X percentage more for their goods in order to ensure a standard of living. Problem is that would be argued as regressive by the left. I'm all for a livable wage, one way or another we're subsidizing the workers of Walmart/McDonalds.
livable by what standards? everyone wants a new car & the latest phone ..............
I am "content" with our current system.
[doublepost=1543250571][/doublepost]
It is unchecked capitalism that is destructive, just like unchecked socialism is destructive. Corporatism like @jkcerda said is one of the bigger problems, however today's breaking news about 8 GM plant closures is more of an example of capitalist behaviour rather than corporatist.
build crappy cars and the market will take you out.
 
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Dmunjal

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livable by what standards? everyone wants a new car & the latest phone ..............
I am "content" with our current system.
[doublepost=1543250571][/doublepost]
build crappy cars and the market will take you out.
The market did take them out. In 2008. But government interfered.
 

Raid

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Feb 18, 2003
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build crappy cars and the market will take you out.
Yep, the only true power the consumers have in a capitalist market. Mind you if I was in office I'd be calling Elon Musk asking if he wants to set up shop for Tesla production. :)
 
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