Cardinal: No Civil Unions

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Further proof that the religious right is not interested in civil unions for gay people. I've mentioned this before to people who claim that if we would just accept civil unions, the religious right would back off because they get to keep the word, marriage. Well, that was never the case. They want to make sure we gays stay just where we are. Regardless, the cardinal will not get his way.

    We're marching toward equality, cardinal- lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/11/23/Cardinal_No_Civil_Unions/
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    The guy's an ass. It's not the first time he's come down on gay people. Mostly, people here tell him to **** and mind his own business.
     
  4. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #4
    What the hell. I have zero problem with the church refusing to marry gays. That is in their right in freedom of religion and from what I can tell there is backing in the text for that.
    But that should have zero bearing on legal part in the eyes of the law.....
     
  5. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    Because that is never what this was about in the first place. I've tried to explain that before. The Church wants to make sure gays are not allowed to have any sort of legal union at all. That's quite simply the truth and that is the goal. This has never been about the word "marriage".
     
  6. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #6
    depends on which church. The very Conservative churches yes. The more liberal churches no.

    ELCA Lurthern church supports gays right to be married legally speaking. I have not dug deep enough to see if they will perform ceremonies.
     
  7. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Apparently not so for the Catholic Church.
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    I think it's pretty obvious that the lexicon has to be realigned: being married is a civil status unrelated to church membership. Getting married may involve religious ceremonies, blessings or whatever, depending on what religion the partners adhere to, if any, but at heart the ceremony merely solemnises the civil contract being enacted. I do not understand why there is a problem with marriage in a civil ceremony. It's still being married, and you can always design your own ceremony for the getting married bit. Hire a choreographer.
     
  9. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #9

    With regards to this: Before the priest/pastor says "you're married" are you technically married with regards to the law? Are you "being" married long before the actual ceremony?
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    In effect the priest is acting in part as a licensed agent of the state, in solemnising the contract, so I suppose that the religious and civil status would change at the same time..
     
  11. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #11
    Catholic Church is one of the most conservative church out there.
     
  12. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #12
    Depends on what you mean by "conservative."

    They take up traditionally "liberal" causes as well such as civil rights, immigrant rights, universal health care, etc.

    Although not enough recently to my liking...
     
  13. stonyc macrumors 65816

    stonyc

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    #13
    You're not surprised are you?

    I could write a dissertation on my opposition to religious institutions, particularly the Catholic (supposedly "universal") Church, but I don't want to waste my time.
     
  14. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    No, I'm not surprised. I posted this mainly to illustrate that this battle has never been about the word, "marriage". It's about civil rights, which the Church obviously opposes for gay people.

    People have often asked me here why we just don't go for civil unions, as it would be easier and religion wouldn't oppose it. I gave the answer that they would oppose those too, and they do.
     
  15. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    They'd be against anything which "legitimizes" gay relationships...and that probably even includes those corporations which voluntarily give benefits to same sex partners. No civil unions or marriage there, but it implies an approval of such relationships, and therefore must be "evil". :rolleyes:
     
  16. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    That's why there's no reason to worry about going for equal marriage rights.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #17
    which though isn't the same in all countries .. in others the priest have no rights whatsoever to create a civil marriage
     
  18. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Excuse me?
     
  19. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #19
    The Catholic Church has a long and proud tradition of taking up "liberal" causes only long after they've been popularly won anyway, and then pretending that they led the way.
     
  20. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #20
    I think I saw that very thing in Working Girl, but Melanie Griffith was much more comely than the Catholic Church.
     
  21. CaoCao macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    You mean the battle for Freedom of Religion in the US? That was 1787... Interracial marriage? Catholic Church never opposed it... Equal rights regardless of skin color? Never opposed that...
    of the latter two that was over a thousand years ago, so yeah definitely after the battles had been won
     
  22. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    Well, they certainly are failing on this civil rights front.
     
  23. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #23
    Ya see, be they Black, White or Blue, a person born Catholic is foremost a Catholic.

    Civil Unions?? WTF is that? Can we glean new Catholic recruits from them?

    Well, probably no, if they are Male/Male, Female/Female, Farmer/Sheep, etc.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    It's ok if the sheep is a Catholic.
     
  25. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #25
    But what if the Farmer refuses to take instruction???
     

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