Catholic hospital argues fetuses aren’t people

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. rdowns, Jan 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013

    rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Jul 11, 2003
    #1
    Found this story very interesting. Hypocrisy much?




    http://coloradoindependent.com/1268...catholic-hospital-argues-fetuses-arent-people
     
  2. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #2
    The Catholic Church has always been astoundingly hypocritical when serving their own needs.

    How they still have followers (who continue to drop money in the basket every week) is beyond me.
     
  3. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #3
    Very sad story. I'll be the first to admit that, as a Christ follower, we have more than our fair share of hypocrites.
     
  4. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #4
    They really are filthy worming cretins.

    And if people stopped, they can pay these legal fees with fascist Mussolini's fortune.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/21/vatican-secret-property-empire-mussolini
     
  5. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    Jan 9, 2007
    #5
    This was not a decision of the Catholic Church. This was a decision of CHI, or perhaps their lawyers on their behalf. Nobody knows who they consulted with or what that person/person(s) background is.

    CHI is not run by bishops. You'll likely hear a condemnation come from one level of the church or another soon. These kinds of issues are nothing new. The church has been trying to crack down on nominally Catholic hospitals that perform abortions for years.
     
  6. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #6
    Hypocrisy, for sure.

    This disgusts and saddens me. Obvious reasons are that as a parent, you wish you never, ever would have to lose your children, unborn, living, or otherwise. Having been through that personally, I would never wish that to happen to anyone, even the people I have ever claimed to hate (which I don't and rarely if ever use that word anymore) have had as my worst enemies, or think I am their enemy. No-one deserves something like that.

    I can't imagine how the husband feels after losing the children and his wife. That part really hits home. Again, I hope nobody ever has to go through that.

    What disgusts me: my SO and I lost ours also at a Catholic hospital, and had our youngest at that same hospital (it was tough going back there; neither of us can set foot in that ER again). They pride themselves on the fact that the fetus is indeed a person and should have legal rights; it's engrained to the point where they are bound to do whatever they can to save it. That isn't a hospital thing; that's based on the religion.

    The fact that this hospital, in the same religion, wants to save the doctor and their butts by going off of law instead of their morals and founding beliefs disgusts me.

    To quote a leadership speaker that I frequently follow: If you were a child, and spot your friend beating up a younger kid, integrity is telling your friend to stop, because he's wrong in beating up the younger kid; Character is not only getting your friend to stop, but defending the younger kid at the same time against your friend.

    In this case, the lack of integrity sticks out from the doctor, as he fails to respond, let alone follow through on the Hippocratic Oath he took to do no harm to patients who need him (in this case the patients died); the lack of character comes from the hospital, where they failed to follow through on their own morals and beliefs, but also in defending the doctor who failed to follow through on his oaths. In both cases, the mother died, and her unborn children, whom both doctor and hospital had a moral duty to protect and heal, died.

    The doctor and hospital are both in the wrong; though I'm sure that this will end up settling out of court. The problem here is that the doctor and hospital will walk, and no settlement, no matter how big, can replace the loss this guy now has to endure.

    I truly feel for him.

    BL.
     
  7. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #7
    I'm sure the condemnation will come as quickly as it did when they realized they were caught moving child molesters from parish to parish. :rolleyes:

    They are hypocrites. And to paint them in any other light is simply denial or ignorance.
     
  8. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #8

    Wait a second.. are you saying that CHI was who made the decision to let the doctor ignore all of his pages leading to the death of the patient and the unborn children? Really? A doctor has no business listening to legal advisers in performing his duty as a doctor. He should have been on his job and doing his work, or not in the field at all.

    Your post and your analysis of the situation is completely incorrect.

    BL.
     
  9. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #9
    I still don't understand why so many hospitals are linked to religious groups.
     
  10. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #10
    No. I'm talking about the legal argument that's being used, which is what the story is about.

    ----------

    When it is discovered this was an order that came down from the Catholic hierarchy I'll agree with you that this is a church scandal.
     
  11. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #11
    There is plenty of proof that they are hypocrites. Will you agree with that? Or are you waiting for them to cover up the abuse of more children before you believe it?
     
  12. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Illinois
    #12
    One word... PROFIT. They work to maintain tax exempt status. Their tax exemption is worth millions upon millions of additional monies available to pay to their executives.
     
  13. ChristianJapan macrumors 601

    ChristianJapan

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    日本
    #13
    Very sad story, indeed.

    The Catholic Church need to change its behavior if they still want to be relevant in 30 - 50 years. If they loose the current younger and future generation with in many ways outdated mindset they will have a hard time.
    And all "pro life" discussions and anti-abortion is in contradiction here. In other countries unborn babies have already legal protection. There are cases where a (brain) dead mother is kept on life support until the unborn child could be saved. At least the hospital should have tried that and safe the life's of the unborn.

    Because the religious groups founding and funding many hospitals as part of ther mission.
     
  14. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #14
    You can't merge the entirety of the church into a single "they" and accuse them all of the same sins.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    You can when the hierarchy of that insitution are the ones that are actively covering things up and dealing with policy.

    As an institution the Catholic church has done despicable things, that does not make Catholic people bad so please mind the distinction.
     
  16. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #16
    This is also about the crime that was committed, which was wrongful death in the fact that the mother and her unborn children have died. There are criminal ramifications here, as the doctor not only neglected the unborn children, but failed in his obligation to help the ailing mother, who was a live person.

    Again, your argument holds no ground when they are defending the children, just as it holds no ground when trying to defend what happened with the mother.

    If the church has its chapel there and it and the hospital are run by said church, I'll guarantee you that this is a church scandal, as all of this happened on their hallowed grounds, and could be held just as negligent as the doctor.

    BL.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    Many hospitals were started and run by religious institutions in the Middle Ages. Why do you think nurses are addressed as "sister"?
     
  18. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #18
    Ah, very good points. That pretty much explains that.

    I don't think they are in the US. That term is pretty much reserved for nuns here.
     
  19. spork183 macrumors 6502a

    spork183

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    #19
    Different issue: Any ER staff worth their salt would not wait for the OB doctor on call to make the C-section decision. Once they couldn't reach him, they'd take the babies. It's not like ER Docs can't figure out how to do one.

    Really? Frantic ER staff? Because they don't normally deal with emergencies. Never operate or do anything that has to do with trauma. The OB doc was the only one qualified to make this call? Hospital has more problems than this lawsuit. Remind me to go elsewhere if I need stitches. They might not be able to contact a surgeon and I'd bleed to death...
     
  20. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #20
    Well, there is so much hypocrisy in all of us-- hypocrisy is seldom newsworthy. It sounds like the ER staff was grossly inadequate to deal with emergencies. If there was an actual doctor there, and the doctor knew how to do a C-section, as surely they must, then, was it hospital politics that prevented it? The first question is who is responsible.
     

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