CBO says we're in serious trouble.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    According to a recent CBO Brief, we're in some serious trouble.
    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/116xx/doc11659/07-27_Debt_FiscalCrisis_Brief.pdf


    Interestingly enough, the document points to "restraining the growth of spending or increasing revenues significantly as a share of GDP" as a way out of the mess, but fails to state the obvious - that the latter option would have a drastically harmful effect on consumer spending, business growth, business investment, etc. and further consolidate power to a growing and already unconstitutional federal government. They fail to point out clearly and honestly to the American people (in this small section) that social entitlement programs and the cost of running a military empire worldwide is quickly destroying our budget and our country.

    They talk about being in serious trouble, but like any government organization, they're not telling you just how bad it is. They're not telling you about the 109 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities ($350,000 liability per U.S. Citizen (not even per tax payer))

    Get the jawdropping truth, here: http://usdebtclock.org/

    Folks, the founding fathers would be ashamed of the country we've become. We've abandoned the principles of small government and personal responsibility. We've abandoned the principles of trading and doing business with all countries, but making alliances and enemies with none. What happened with frugality? What happened to common sense? Your pet projects are spending us into oblivion, and although all are good-intentioned... the end result will be less prosperity, less personal liberty, and less freedom for all of us. It's time to come to the realization that big-government is not the answer. Both parties are to blame, shifting spending to their own pet projects whenever in office.

    We need to have a national conversation, a conversation the Tea Party is leading right now, about what the role of government ought to be. If you think the role of government is to take care of you from cradle to grave, we'll likely continue along this path. If you think the role of government is to supply basic security, an infrastructure of law and access to basic utilities, but to generally stay out of our lives and exist primarily to ensure maximum liberty... then we may have a chance of survival. The kind of liberty we all enjoy today is an exceedingly rare thing. I only hope that we don't take it for granted and hasten the advancement to complacency/dependence and then to tyranny.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    Why do you refer to this as a one or the other option? Spending needs to be cut at the same time revenues increase.

    Also, unconstitutional government? Please tell me you've been referring to our government that way for almost a decade now, well never mind actually, we know your style around here.

    Also, where is the Tea Party having this conversation? So far it seems like nothing but whining with no actual policies. I really doubt Bachmanns new caucus is going to come up with anything other than slogans and buzzwords like she's been doing for quite a while now.
     
  3. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #3
    Fivepoint, you argue for fiscal responsibility through supporting tea party candidates who are actively arguing for GWB era policies, which are the EXACT policies the CBO blames for this crisis. Do you not realize that there is not a single person in the tea party who agrees with Ron Paul? They want abortion restrictions, no gay rights, increasing the war on drugs, and oh, they want to end civil rights, voting rights, and don't forget that the people paying their bills want taxes lowered for the super-wealthy.

    Ron Paul should be ashamed to allow his voice and name to be associated with those chicken-*****rs.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Withdraw all troops from the various outposts around the world.

    Convert our combat forces to national service (border and port security, disaster relief, environmental clean-up, infrastructure repair, fire fighting).

    Cut military budget 75%.

    Save over $500 billion per year.
     
  5. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #5
    I think the founding fathers' reaction to the modern USA would be:

    "Holy cow! This country stretches all the way to California? It must be difficult to run such a large country. Why it must take months for news to travel from one end of our lands to the other. What, we can send messages instantly with electricity? Why Ben you old devil, who ever knew that nonsense with the kite would lead to such things! Why, telling that story ought to get you in easy with the young ladies of today. We've invented machines that can fly??? Amazing. I can't wait what advances you've made in oxen-drawn plows, or have you found horses to be more efficient? This city has 3 million people in it? Why, there must be 50 million farmers in the country to support such a large urban population. Why are all these negros and women acting like they are my equals?"
     
  6. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #6
    Your grasp of the Tea Party is so laughably misguided and obviously defined by what you read on the Daily Kos / Huffpo, that it's hardly worth refuting. On the other hand... it's so easy to do. No one who agrees with Ron Paul? :rolleyes: OMG.

    You say that the tea party represents the same GWB era fiscal policies. NYT polling directly refutes your nonsnese: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ea-party-poll-graphic.html?ref=politics#tab=2

    You say they want all want abortion restrictions. NYT polling directly refutes your nonsense:
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ea-party-poll-graphic.html?ref=politics#tab=6

    You say they all want no gay rights. NYT polling directly refutes your nonsense:
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ea-party-poll-graphic.html?ref=politics#tab=6

    Now, as for your accusation that they want to get rid of voting rights and civil rights... I have to ask sincerely... are you being serious right now? Is that actually what you think or are you just trying to rattle the cage? Because I mean, seriously, if this is your actual worldview, if you think the Tea Partiers are out to take away civil rights or voting right, you might need to see a doctor, or at the very least get out of the house once and a while. If that's the case, I'm seriously worried for your health. As much as I disagree with your views, I want you to be healthy and balanced. :(

    That being said, this thread isn't about the Tea Party, it's about the critical state our federal fiscal situation is in. Interesting that not a single liberal in these forums seems concerned about it and has a single solution other than "raise taxes!" (brilliant strategy in an economic downturn btw)



    I could definitely support a large portion of that. But no, they shouldn't be a national grab bag service. They should be troops, combatants, actively protecting America from those who would do us or our interests harm... not freaking firefighters.
     
  7. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #7
    Didn't need the CBO to tell me that. It is quite obvious that this level of spending will have some serious consequences down the road.
     
  8. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #8
    Sadly, there are many Americans (most of them liberals) who don't realize there's a problem, even after the CBO has told them that. Heck, don't have to look far. Paul Krugman anyone?
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #9
    (most of them liberals)




    (another culture wars thread from fivepoint)
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    What a waste of valuable human resources.

    National service can take many forms.

    You need to escape that little box you work in.
     
  11. Queso macrumors G4

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    #11
    There was a large problem years ago, even back when the NeoCon Republicans had a man in the White House and both houses of Congress under their control. This is not a Liberal vs. Conservative argument. It's a fiscal argument. Spending needs to be cut and/or taxes need to go up. But how about you drop the ridiculous partisan sniping and start trying to look to the future and how this can be improved?

    Come on America. You were all very vocal about the crisis in Greece. Surely you've all got BAGS of ideas?
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    Not as long as people like fivepoint want to point fingers at the other side and cry "it's all your fault!", when clearly it is not. As long as that kind of crap continues, nothing will get done.
     
  13. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

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    #13
    I'd wait till they found out we got's us a negro in the white house :D
     
  14. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #14

    Yes it is. You seem to be confusing Republican with fiscal conservative. One thing this argument isn't, is a Democrat vs. Republican argument. As I pointed out in the first post, and you've yet to figure out is that both parties are equally to blame for our financial situation. Liberal big-government policies coming from both political camps. Neo-cons are to be blamed just/almost as much as liberals. True small-government conservatives on the other hand always take a stance against spending. Always support more dollars staying with the citizenry, always stand for less entitlements and more liberty.

    Don't try and say it isn't a liberal issue just because hawkish-social conservative, fiscal liberals (neo-cons) spend like wild too. The problem is big government plain and simple.



    Ah, the old liberal fail-safe. Can't win argument, claim racism. You don't happen to be a member of the Journolist, do you? Or maybe just the Democrat party.
     
  15. Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    The problem is that the United States population has divided into two distinct camps and are viewing government as a football match where a "team" must be supported whatever the performance, and not necessarily along party lines. This isn't new either. I'd say it goes back to the 1980s.

    Reagan overspent like crazy yet is treated as a hero by conservatives. Clinton meanwhile balanced the budget yet is treated like a pariah. Says it all really.
     
  16. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #16
    Good point. The CBO's comments should indeed be completely ignored since there exist hypocritical Republicans/conservatives.

    Sorry, fivepoint. There's nothing to see here. Move along.
     
  17. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

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    #17
    I wasn't speaking to you FP, I was responding to another poster not having an argument with you so put away your soap box.
     
  18. Queso macrumors G4

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    #18
    Maybe I'm not explaining myself particularly well. I think Americans need to start mending a few bridges with each other and working together. At the moment nobody can suggest a sensible fiscal strategy without half the population getting steamed up about it. In the meantime the problems just get worse.

    It's not about Republicans/Democrats or liberals/conservatives. You all have to accept that half the people in your nation fall into one side or the other of each divide and stop being so concerned with hearing your own voices you forget to listen to the other side. Otherwise no progress.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    Way to ignore the entire point of his post, which was a very good post.
     
  20. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #20
    His point is indeed good, maybe even good enough for it's own thread. I'll even even suggest a thread title: "Reagan Republicans are hypocrites." Hell, I may even post in that thread that I agree with him.

    For the moment - alas - we are stuck discussing the uimportant, non-current report of no one in particular, right?
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    Read the first paragraph, the rest was just an extension of that. I don't know why you got so worked up on the example of his point.
     
  22. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #22
    The essence of a culture warrior. When your ideology doesn't work it's because the team you align was too much like the others.

    Conservatism never fails, it only becomes too liberal.

    Liberalism never fails, it only becomes too conservative.
     
  23. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #23
    Fivepoint in summary:

    CBO says public option will save lots of money = CBO SUCKS!!

    CBO says something fivepoint has wanted to have confirmed for months/years = CBO ROCKS

    Hilarious.
     
  24. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #24
    Neither of us were talking about current racism of any party or person, but rather the racism of the founding fathers. The racism of the at least many of the founding fathers is rather indisputable, wouldn't you agree?
     
  25. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #25
    Unlike the liberal elite education system would have you believe, in order to diminish what they did and invalidate the conservative small-government values they laid forth, these men weren't simply 'elite white slave owners'. While I would agree that some were racists, they also did more to end slavery/racism than you or I could ever dream of. From 'all men are created equal' to the 3/5 compromise, many of things they did, the lives they lost, happened because of their desire to wash away the sins of slavery and clear a new path for America. They built the foundation upon which Slavery was eliminated and racism was reduced in this country. Many of them fought against slavery even though it benefited them personally to a great extent. Many of them said one thing pro-slavery in public (in order to save ensure the union's creation), while advocating the other side during meaningful private conversations and actions.
     

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