Cecil: Just One Of Many

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Desertrat, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #1
    In the course of my morning browsing I ran across this article:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ans-killing-zimbabwe-lions-only-concern-was-g

    It speaks to the corruption in Zimbabwe concerning the way that government allows hunting in their national parks. Pretty much sub-rosa, in order to not upset the photo-safari tourists.

    "But first, here is some background on how legal local poaching, whether it is for lions or elephants is. From the formerly classified memo:

    Meeting with poloff and conoff on October 10, Bown said that it was unclear "how legal" these hunting operations were, since it appeared the hunters had permits issued by Parks to kill the animals, despite the provision in the National Parks Act that prohibits commercial hunting. The photographic safari operators indicated Parks had given several local and South African hunting companies concessions to kill elephants in Hwange if they met specific criteria: (1) total ivory weight less than 30 pounds, (2) young/adolescent males, (3) isolated areas (i.e. away from watering holes and main roads), and (4) controlled by Parks staff. Parks has never publicly stated these criteria or explained the operation. Frustrated photographic safari operators weighed and photographed many of the tusks at the Park's ivory store in Hwange and found that many were over 30 pounds each. In one case, an operator claimed an American hunter killed an elephant with tusks weighing over 120 pounds. Photos also show some elephants were killed very near main roads and close to watering holes. In at least one reported case, a vehicle drove around the animal before the hunter killed it at close range. In emails to Mtsambiwa and Nhema, safari operators decried the unethical hunting both in terms of the detrimental ecological impact and the negative impact it would have on their own businesses.

    ... the safari operators also reported that some of the hunting guides had been issued hundreds of hunting permits for elephants in Hwange and other national parks in mid-to-late August. Normally, hunting permits are offered in an auction to all professional hunting guides. In contrast, Bown said these recent permits were issued through a non-transparent process to professional hunters of ill-repute, including some South African operators."

    This has long been known to our State Department and the CIA.
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Doesn't excuse it though.
     
  3. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    "Excusing" is not the issue. The US government could have stopped US citizens like the dentist from doing this, years ago. If you know about corruption but ignore it, are you innocent?

    IMO, the whole deal sucks, big time. The hunters, the corrupt Zim bureaucrats and guides, our State Department.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Should we stop people from our countries taking drugs or using prostitutes in Thailand?
     
  5. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Eraserhead, isn't the use of drugs illegal there? I don't know their laws about prostitution.

    Easy enough to have a law making unethical hunting practices illegal elsewhere for U.S. citizens, just as we have here.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    Huh? Pray/say/tell how do you propose that is enforced?
     
  7. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a

    b0fh666

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    wow. and you are from texas none the less. amazing.
     
  8. giantfan1224 macrumors 6502a

    giantfan1224

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    #8
    Thank you for your constructive reply.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    So lots of people go to places like Thailand to take drugs, and our governments do nothing to stop them or attempt to punish them.

    For a similar reason is why US citizens haven't been punished for this sort of stuff before. However this time there has been outrage so it is different.

    There is some precedence though in the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act or the more stringent Bribery Act in the UK.
     
  10. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    US Consulate employees already know about crooked booking companies in the various African countries. Hunters themselves know about them and they're not even resident in those countries. So, collect the information and disseminate it among the various pro-hunt organizations. NRA, e.g., as well as such as Boone&Crockett. Magazines and blogs about hunting as well. Create a "do-not-use" list.

    The problem is not the hunter so much as it is the governmental corruption that allows crooked booking companies.

    As near as I can tell from all the crap about this Cecil deal, the dentist himself was legal. The methodology of the hunt was a legal standard practice. But his outfitter did not have a quota for the tract upon which the hunt was held--which is the why of the effort to hide the deal. The gps on the collar gave the evidence of the lack of quota.

    (I'm not interested in hunting lions, but if I were, the hunting ethic of "quick, clean kill" would not have me using a cross-bow. Sure, I'm a hunter. And I'm rather proud of a near-perfect record of "dead right there" one-shot kills.)
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    I think your post contradicts itself. If information on dodgy hunts is common knowledge then the dentist should have known to avoid them.
     
  12. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #12
    If you go to a country you adhere to their laws, not your own countries laws.

    This doesn't mean I approve of trophy hunting, but Cecil was killed illegally, and the dentist should face trial in zimbabwe. African countries need to act to stop trophy hunting, and trophy hunters should be named and shamed, its an unacceptable practice.
     

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