Challenge to everybody who claims their LG 9c81 displays have no yellowing

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by PDE, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. PDE macrumors 68020

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    Nov 16, 2005
    #1
    There are a lot of people saying their displays have no yellowing at the bottom and that the default colorLCD profile doesn't result in an overall yellowish tint. My theory is that most of these displays have the overall yellow tint and that if they are calibrated to neutral white 6500k, the upper part will be crisp white and the lower part will show a yellow tint. Since the default colorLCD profile is slightly yellow it masks the yellow tint of the lower part.

    So, here is a simple test to see if yours has yellow:

    - download one of the profiles I've attached and install it in your colorsync/displays folder. Select it and examine using one of the test images in the other thread. Are whites the same at bottom and top? Now, after using the profile for a few minutes, switch back to the ColorLCD profile, or any profile that uses the native white point. What do whites look like immediately after you've switched back?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. theLimit macrumors 6502a

    theLimit

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    Jan 30, 2007
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    up tha holler, acrost tha crick
    #2
    I have the 9C81. The default color profile is garbage, looks like a thin coat of urine on glass. Colors are completely washed out.

    I went to System Preferences -> Displays -> Color, and clicked the Calibrate button. Once it was done, the display looked incredible. I tried several test images that have been posted/linked on these forums and I notice no bottom-third yellowing.
     
  3. DocSmitty macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Lincoln, NE
    #3
    I'm really not clear on what point you are trying to make. It doesn't matter if a monitor has a certain tint to it with the default color profile, so long as you can adjust it to your own personal preferences. That is *totally* different from an issue where the bottom portion of the screen is a significantly different color than the rest. That type of problem should be apparent regardless of what color profile you use. Oh, and the profile I use is not the default - it's a much "cooler" color profile, strong on the blue-white, more like a fluorescent light than an incandescent. That's just my personal preference. And even with this non-yellow profile, I still don't see the discoloration.

    I did what you asked, and as before, the bottom is not any yellower than the top. It is slightly darker at my standard viewing angle, but if I move my head around the bottom becomes lighter and the top darkens a bit. That's a verrrry narrow viewing angle, but not a defective panel.

    Oh, and by the way - if you are trying to prove something, you maybe shouldn't be giving people such bad profiles to use.. they are VERY reddish on my 9C81. If you use those for a while and then go back to any better profile, then sure the other profile will look color distorted as your eyes are used to the red.
     
  4. PDE thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    #4


    My point is:


    1. The default profile masks the lower 1/3 yellowing because it's yellow.

    2. Most people use the default profile and therefore don't notice the yellow since the whole screen has the tint. Only next to another screen is it really visible.

    3. If you use a profile that is calibrated for 6500k, white will appear crisp and white where they can, but not where the yellow defect is.

    4. I didn't make the profile and, you're right, they are
    slightly red, but they are 6500k white hardware calibrated, rather than native white point which is yellowish.


    I know exactly what the lower 1/3 yellowing is as I've had it and seen it on other units too. I've also had one LG display that didn't have yellowing. It isn't always clear with the default profile though and that is the profile most people end up using unless they're aware of the need to calibrate. When you calibrate your display so that whites are proper white, the yellow areas become much more apparent. This doesn't meant that they can't be visible with the default colorLCD profile - I've seen several that are badly yellow at the bottom and where the colorLCD profile doesn't mask it because the yellowing is too strong.

    Anyway, not trying to prove anything but I do think the yellowing is a bigger issue with these displays than many think and I wish Apple would address it quickly.
     
  5. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Location:
    In my imagination
    #5
    I don't have an issue with my screen, before and after it was calibrated... no yellow tint. Not every machine has the yellowing issue, and I mean, no yellowing whatsoever.

    For me, and the folks around the Maryland area, there is barely an issue with yellowing screens and faulty backlights at all. Every iMac and MacBook Pro I have seen is pretty much flawless, sans the teenager's finger prints.

    To be honest, I have never seen a yellow display at all, and I really want to see one to see how bad it really is.

    Anyone with a bad screen want to post a well lit photo of it that shows the obvious yellow tint in a flawed Apple screen.
     
  6. bcaslis macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    #6
    Do you have a 17" or 15" (your signature says 17"). I would agree that the 17" seems very nice I don't see any yellowing. The 15" however is another matter. I've yet to see one that didn't have any yellowing, some a minor amount, some a lot.
     
  7. pennymac macrumors member

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    Sep 16, 2007
    Location:
    toronto
    #7
    I agreed. all of the 15" i have seen has the problem(Only abt 5 :cool:). I even doubt about there is one without yellowing. Just like the apple technician i spoke with , he didn't recognize it when the first time i told him. Since you only can notice them under the solid background, and after he recognized he found a lot of mbp with the problem. srry, this didnt connect to the topic.
     
  8. digitalfrog macrumors regular

    digitalfrog

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    #8

    I guess the vast majority of us are like him, or we have a good screen.

    Either way, all those tests will only make people that were happy become annoyed about something that did not matter....

    It feels like persuading healthy people that a small thing they have is in fact quite bad and that they are ill....

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some screens are *obviously* bad and need fixing.
     
  9. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    Dec 23, 2006
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    #9
    The sig is what I would like in a 17" although the one I do have is fine, but either way.... yes. I do have a 17" and have heard that the yellowing is primarily in the 15" screens.

    The photogs that I work with have SR MBPs and their screens aren't yellow though, and all the ones I talked to don't have that problem, their screens are immaculate.

    But those are the ones that I talked to, about five or so, not the 15 or so others.
     
  10. markrivers macrumors 6502a

    markrivers

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    Valencia, California
    #10

    hey dude!
    are you still pursuing this yellowish thing? ha ha!

    i call this a crusade!! a PDE crusade!
    anyway, good luck!:D
     
  11. chrono1081 macrumors 604

    chrono1081

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    Isla Nublar
    #11
    Mines perfectly fine. Its not my eyes either, I used to be a photog so I know my color accuracy inside and out.
     
  12. PDE thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    #12

    yeah, after seeing quite a few yellow LGs now with owners who say they can't see any yellowing, I've had to conclude that either a) I'm seeing things or b) they're not seeing things. I think the latter.

    I'm not going to pursue this further though. There's no real point as those who have it know that they do and those that can't see it say they don't have it (and maybe they don't....). I guess it is pointless after all.


    btw, my iphone keeps reminding me just how off the whites are on my mbp - the whites on the iphone are crisp white without any tint. It's hard going between the two :)


    Here's a good example of one of the generally yellow-tinted LED MBPs I had last summer. I thought it didn't have any yellow tint....until I hooked it up to my desktop Samsung LCD and compared (the MBP is the lower part of the first picture and the samsung is behind it). The eyes adapt very quickly, but next to another display it becomes obvious what white is. In the left picture, the MBP is using a calibrated profile at the LCD's native white point. The right photo shows what happened when I set the white point to 6500k on the MBP - the upper parts became as white as the samsung display, but the lower part became tinted with a yellowish cast.

    My current display 9c81 is very similar.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. bcaslis macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    #13
    If it's any consolation, I see the same thing as you. And my experience with others perception is the same. I'd had people say theirs is fine. Then I have them put up a white window and show them the yellowing. They then say yes they see the yellowing but it's fine there is no problem with the display. :confused:

    I guess it's a matter of human nature that people see what they want to see. ;)
     
  14. markrivers macrumors 6502a

    markrivers

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    Valencia, California
    #14
    i stopped looking for the holy grail of MBP screen a month ago.
    my conclusion:

    1. ALL the MBP screens are flawed. ( with yellow tints)
    it's just that, other people don't know what to look for..
    majority of MBP users, don't even know how to calibrate their screens..:D

    how many have spyder or huey pro? 1 in 10? nah! i say 1 in 10,000 perhaps!
     
  15. orpheus1120 macrumors 65816

    orpheus1120

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    Malaysia
    #15
    +1
     
  16. mox123 macrumors 6502

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    Jul 18, 2007
    Location:
    Chicago
    #16
    i was looking at my new Penryn 2.4 stock glossy MBP screen side-by-side with my 7-month old white macbook with 2.16GHz glossy....the macbook glossy screen looks darker and more yellow overall....my MBP LED screen is FAR MUCH whiter and brighter...

    so i really don't understand what the problem is with the 15" LED screen...what is the holy-grail standard that we should compare our screens to?
    :confused:
     
  17. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    Dec 23, 2006
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    In my imagination
    #17
    Maybe for the 15" models. The 17" models don't seem to have it. And there are still plenty of 15" that I have seen that don't have it at all, even when calibrated.

    There is no way you can say all of them, even if you went through 20 versions which were all yellow.
     
  18. PDE thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    #18
    I'd start out comparing the upper part of the macbook pro screen with the lower part... on my screen the upper part is the holy-grail standard by which I evaluate the lower part. Also, you can't compare an old macbook with the current LED lit screens since the macbook gets dimmer with time.

    There are too many people here that have gone through multiple units that have all shown yellowing for it to be a coincidence. There are people reporting the issue from all over the world so it's not just a bad batch. There are also people report having had a bad one last summer and then now again purchased one with yellowing so the situation doesn't seem to have been limited to the early units.

    None of us know for sure how many percent are affected, but the chances of somebody getting several bad ones in a row, sometimes from different batches or different stores, should be almost nil and yet it's not uncommon.

    Regardless, anybody buying an expensive computer like this should be able to count on getting the highest quality display available at this time, but I don't think that's the case with Apple's laptops today.

    Oh, here's another beautiful example of a yellow-tinted display - this is just the default calibration, not the lower 1/3 issue (though it does look a little more yellow at the bottom), but still. Why does Apple not ship with a relatively good color profile? http://flickr.com/photos/kevinv033/2365005767/


    And another one, where the owner is proudly stating that it's the first boot! If it were my screen/MBP, it would be the last boot too: http://flickr.com/photos/codapop/2388004324/
     
  19. mcbeej macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    #19
    I don't agree that all are flawed.

    Reason: I have purchased 4 MBP's now with the issue, and am waiting for #5 (which looks like it's turning up on Monday) - I know what it's like, even after calibrating.

    At the Apple Store in London, I checked out at least three of the MBP 15's on display. All were LG displays. One of which had the same issues as mine - yellowing, dull/dirty whites at the bottom.

    The other two were perfect - no yellowing, and the bottom of the display was the same brightness as the top - and yes, I calibrated one of them there and then.

    Those two screens were as I would expect all of the displays to be like - consistent, even, the same colour display at the top compared to the bottom, and no yellowing.

    When Apple advertise the new "gorgeous displays" they don't put a little asterisk and say in small print "gorgeous is a relative term, if you accept that our displays can't display a white at the top and a white at the bottom with the same brightness, and the bottom third will look dirty and have a yellow tint - but apart from that, they're gorgeous"

    I just want one that works as promised... it's not too much to ask for, when I'm spending the equivalent of over $3k on a laptop...
     
  20. super98111 macrumors member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    #20
    The profile is a software and the yellow/color uniformity is hardware issue. They are completely different issue. This thread is just tp challenge other people's eyes.
     
  21. bcaslis macrumors 68020

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    Mar 11, 2008
    #21
    As I've said before, I don't see any evidence of yellowing on the 17" screens. The new 17" LED is generally gorgeous. But you can't deduce anything about the 15" from the 17". Nobody here can say they all have it or don't for the 15". Based on what I've personally seen, my "belief" is that all the 15" have this to some degree or another. I've yet to see one 15" that was as good as the 17" LED.

    You can't accurately calibrated a screen based on Apple's cute little option in the display panel. The only way to accurately color calibrate a screen is with a hardware/software software combination. I've love to see one "perfect" 15". Everyone I've seen has issues, though sometimes it's difficult to see them in the very bright lighting in an Apple store.
     
  22. mcbeej macrumors member

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    Jun 7, 2007
    #22
    No, but I could see the issue was not there even on the uncalibrated displays (I had test images already put on my server to check them out with.)

    I then did a quick run through the calibation routine on one machine to even out the yellow to make double sure.

    Trust me, those displays I would have been perfectly happy with - and if I had had one of those on my first machine, I wouldn't have needed to reject it. Or the next three after that...

    You can ignore what I say because my evidence doesn't fit your hypothesis, or you can admit that your hypothesis is flawed. Me, I'm plenty able to judge this issue and have experience of enough machines, both good and bad.

    There exist bad machines, and there exist good machines. I've seen them with my own eyes. Therefore I do not agree with your hypothesis that all the 15in screens are flawed - even if I ignored all the other anecdotal evidence from other people on this forum that also does not fit your hypothesis either.

    I do however think it's a large problem, and I do think that a lot of people have these screens and either don't notice, don't care, or are otherwise happy with them. How large a problem it is, I don't know. But it given that it started on release of the first MBP LED models a year ago, and it's still ongoing know, suggests it has not been radically improved, if at all...
     
  23. rezonat0r macrumors 6502

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    Nov 2, 2007
    #23
    PDE, it sounds like you have not actually hardware calibrated your particular display, is that correct? It's hard to know what you got until you can do that.

    Still, I agree with you 100%. I have yet to see a screen from Apple where the default profile isn't pretty yellowish. I would go so far as to say that the fact that Apple has not improved their default color profiles for so long is not a coincidence. It certainly works in their favor because it does mask color shifts on their screens. For instance I have a Penryn 17" high res that, only when calibrated, shows the upper right quadrant of the screen is pinkish. That isn't visible at all with the default profile.

    This is why I feel it is meaningless when people say they looked for a problem at an Apple store and didn't see it. The displays there are too inaccurate to make any sound judgement.

    I know some people will say that the viewing angle has nothing to do with this problem, but sorry, it does. The very nature of an LCD panel, combined with the unfortunate fact that our eyeballs line up horizontally and not vertically, means the top of the screen is viewed from one angle and the bottom is viewed from an opposite angle. This will cause some amount of color shift from top to bottom. It's visible on my 17", just like it's visible to some degree on every LCD screen.

    The reason some screens have it worse than others, I believe, is due to individual variances in how the LCD panel is built. With 7+ layers of materials in one screen, how "flat" or "even" each layer is on top of one another can make things better or worse.
     
  24. PDE thread starter macrumors 68020

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    Nov 16, 2005
    #24
    I'm very aware of that, but when you calibrate the whole display to 6500k, the hardware issue of yellowing becomes apparent since the top becomes crisp pure white and the lower part gets a yellowish tint. So they're linked in terms of diagnosing the problem. Nobody who cares about color would use the default color profile.
     
  25. mcbeej macrumors member

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    Jun 7, 2007
    #25
    Yes, this is a different issue, and the default color profile is overly yellow - it amazes me that it's been left like this for so long, which implies it *might* conveniently help mask a known issue with the displays - which also is to do with the colour yellow. Co-inkidink? Who knows..?

    This is true, but I would argue that when you position the display at the optimum viewing angle, and sit yourself down in the optimum place, you should be able to get a good viewpoint of the screen - after all, these are marketed as professional machines (yes, I know, external screens are better).

    All five of the ChiMei screen I had had the dirty whites at the bottom. Ignoring the yellowing (which they also had), from the normal viewing angle, it makes the bottom quarter of the screen darker.

    So tell me, when I'm working on some graphic - do you think it is normal and acceptable to have to crouch down four inches to see the bottom as it should be? Or constantly tilt the screen forward and back? Maybe I should just pretend the bottom 200 pixels don't exist and not use them?

    (And I am someone that disables the dock to use all of my screen space.)

    Four years of using a Powerbook with an even screen would suggest that is not the way it should be. (Yes, it's a different screen technology blah blah I know)

    And the good LG screens in the Apple Store had a clean bottom and a perfectly fine viewing angle, which the ChiMei screens most certainly did not.

    All I want is a display that looks normal, from a normal viewing angle. I'm not expecting more than that. Heck, I can live with the whole screen going bright green when I move five inches to the left. Just give me a screen I can look at normally which does it's job as most people would expect it to. I don't think it's too much to ask - especially as I've seen some. And don't give me that "you can't judge in an Apple Store" stuff - believe me, I'm sensitive to the issue, and it was quite clear which displays were unacceptable to me and which ones were great.

    Oh well, I've said my piece on the subject, so anything else will just be a pointless rant. Feel free to believe me or not, it doesn't matter - I don't have anything to prove... ;)
     

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