Changes in Late 2003

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
46,727
8,945
eWeek speculates about the upcoming plans for Apple/Mac/PPC:

The main theme I see emerging from these various reports: Apple is methodically plotting its pressing need to migrate the installed user base to Mac OS X against its equally urgent need to speed the evolution of Mac performance, dragged down in recent years by the relatively sluggish ramp-up of the Motorola PowerPC G4 CPU at the core of most current Macs.


No new details or rumors, but reiteration that major updates should not be expected before late-summer 2003.
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,561
0
VA
Ah, use of the methodically really seems to set the tone here. It will be a while before we see any changes, so the G4 will be around in Desktops probably until MacWorld NewYork 03 - if this speculation holds true.

What I'm not surprised at is 'Moreover, Mac watchers in the good seats stress that Apple is not about to drop Motorola's PowerPC flavors any time soon, at least when it comes to its laptop lines.'

That makes total sense, even though some here want to see the new chips in the consumer and laptops first. That won't happen.

D
 

Stike

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2002
1,010
4
Germany
Re: Changes in Late 2003

Originally posted by Macrumors

No new details or rumors, but reiteration that major updates should not be expected before late-summer 2003.
Ahm, ok... wait... WHAT?? Summer/ late 2003? Why? Will Apple leave us starving for that awaited edge of performance?

Seems my Comp is long before being outdated. ;)

Perhaps Apple needs the time to make the Power4 derivate deal with IBM? :confused:
 

impierced

macrumors 6502
Sep 30, 2002
273
0
If true...

Watch Apple's already eroding market share drop even more. I don't think many that use Apple's high-end equipment can handle another year of hacked motherboards and mediocre processors.

Maybe Apple can become a service only company since .mac appears to be so successful!!! *sigh*
 

PrettyMan

macrumors member
Jul 19, 2002
39
0
Oyeregui, Spain
Can we...

Can we wait another year ? No.

Has anybody tried Oracle's performance on new DP G4 ? Horrible.
(yes, it´s a developer release, what a pitty. No reason to avoid the poor performance).

Has anybody used Maya, Photoshop, Java, Seti or another proccess consummer application ? Puagg.

I'm using Macs since 1982 and never the compared-performance was worst.

We need a solution. Quickly, please !!!

:( :( :(
 

macdop

macrumors member
Jan 2, 2002
51
3
Re: Can we...

Originally posted by PrettyMan
I'm using Macs since 1982 and never the compared-performance was worst.
1982, eh? can I borrow your time machine?
 

Falleron

macrumors 68000
Nov 22, 2001
1,609
0
UK
I believe we will get a substantial update in January or around that time. Why? Because OSX will the only system booting on new towers + people need more speed. I dont believe that market share will drop before then. I dont have any evidence to back it up, just my opinion.

Can someone answer me this? We must assume that Motorola will release a compatible chip that uses the full capacity of the DDRAM (G4 - 7470 I believe). What speed increase will this give in %? Add to that, a speed bump of the processor - another 250Mhz, Firewire 2, usb2, bluetooth + faster graphics, and faster superdrive. I believe all this will make a much better system.
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
Re: Re: Can we...

Originally posted by macdop


1982, eh? can I borrow your time machine?
You know, he is from Spain. Now, my Spanish isn't perfect (I've only studied for two years), but wouldn't, "I am using since 1982," be correct in a direct translation of Spanish to English?
 

rmac

macrumors member
Mar 5, 2002
36
0
Hanover, NH
Photoshop fine

Originally posted by PrettyMan
Can we wait another year ? No.

Has anybody tried Oracle's performance on new DP G4 ? Horrible.
(yes, it´s a developer release, what a pitty. No reason to avoid the poor performance).

Has anybody used Maya, Photoshop, Java, Seti or another proccess consummer application ? Puagg.

I'm using Macs since 1982 and never the compared-performance was worst.

We need a solution. Quickly, please !!!

:( :( :(
I may be in the minority here, but I'm perfectly happy with my G4 450. In the photo studios at Dartmouth we only have graphite G4s. We're doing editing in Photoshop with files usually in the 80-300 MB range, and things work well. Yes, transforms and sharpening take a while but for a good final picture, I've got a minute or so to spare. Better yet, in OS X we now can scan in stand alone apps, while working in Photoshop on another picture, while doing test prints on yet another picture. This may have been possible in OS 9, but I never would have done it because something would have crashed and brought down the whole system.

Check out the NY Times. They have an article there in the Technology section about how speed is not as big a factor as it used to be. Apple is fighting the right fights now, IMHO.

On a separate note, did anyone ever wonder if "Junkyard" might refer to distributed computing which the Mach microkernel is built to do? Wouldn't mind clustering my next computer with my current one....
 

mr evil brkfast

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2002
62
0
Toronto, Canada
No major update- Maybe we can say 2% Market Share

If Apple thinks that they can get by with 100-200 mhz bumps until next summer and still maintain their present level of market share they are dreaming.

Since the G4 has been pretty much a bust since the start, shouldn't Apple have been looking for alternatives as far back as July 2000?'
:mad:
 

allpar

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2002
299
35
Never said the G4 wouldn't get better

...the great leap will be later, but there's nothing stopping Apple from making "minor leaps" sooner. GPUL in September 2003, new G4s in January 2003.
 

pgwalsh

macrumors 68000
Jun 21, 2002
1,639
218
New Zealand
I think Apple should continue its focus on cleaning up OS X and making iApps. With the market in its condition right now, it doesn't make too much sense IMO to buck out a huge processor. I just don't think corporate budgets are looking to spend doe on new systems. Now, I think the time is to focus on implementing new technologies to there fullest.

IBM has a new fab facility in NY and Apple could outsource the development of a new processor. They can license new technologies from IBM and MOTO. Maybe that's what they're doing and it's just going to take some time (which I think they have) to reach fruition. Wouldn't it be better to launch your bad a$$ products when the market turns up instead of during a depression? Save the doe and focus on doing what you do best - making a solid OS with incredible apps - appeal to those that strife WXP and don't need the power.

Believe you me, I want a pentium crushing CPU as much as the next person, but I have some reservations about releasing anything right now. It would be great for me, but not necessarily for Apple. I'm in the market for a new Mac and I'd like to see more options but I can deal with the new machines like I have with my G3 400 for the past four years.

I’m coming from a perspective of a power user too. Think I like waiting an hour and a half for premier to render a 10minute clip? Ha!
.
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
Any developer should understand that processors of today are overkill. If code was actually optimized from time to time (like Microsoft Word), we wouldn't have any need (except for the hardcore gamers and DV professionals) for the P4 2.8 and AthlonXP 2800+.
 

Token

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2002
14
1
"I'm using Macs since 1982 and never the compared-performance was worst."

Strange.. The first Macintosh was made in 1984
;) :D
 

pgwalsh

macrumors 68000
Jun 21, 2002
1,639
218
New Zealand
Originally posted by rice_web
Any developer should understand that processors of today are overkill. If code was actually optimized from time to time (like Microsoft Word), we wouldn't have any need (except for the hardcore gamers and DV professionals) for the P4 2.8 and AthlonXP 2800+.
I agree. It's like when the web first started and we all had really slow modems. You'd optimize your images and html so pages would load at an acceptable rate for the slowest possible modem. I still believe that philosophy should apply, but it's widely ignored as broadband is being pushed.

Applications have the same issue. There's a lot of bloat because the focus has been on processor speeds, which the majority of the public really doesn't need. That's why there's usually a dot release after the initial release. They clean up some of the bloat code and fix bugs etc.
 

PrettyMan

macrumors member
Jul 19, 2002
39
0
Oyeregui, Spain
Originally posted by Token
"I'm using Macs since 1982 and never the compared-performance was worst."

Strange.. The first Macintosh was made in 1984
;) :D
Sorry, the correct year is 1992. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
(I'm not so old...)

And excuse me, but my english is absolutely awful, you know.

Ciao.
 

Kid Red

macrumors 65816
Dec 14, 2001
1,379
87
People, people. We will get a G4+ with new mobo FSB etc. The substantial update will be the IBM power4 core due out in the fall. We will have a significant update in January just not as big as the one in the Fall when we go with a new chip for the towers.
 

Falleron

macrumors 68000
Nov 22, 2001
1,609
0
UK
I think we are in for an interesting couple of months. The way I see it, most lines need to be updated + SJ wont want to do all of them at San Fransico.
 

P-Worm

macrumors 68020
Jul 16, 2002
2,045
0
Salt Lake City, UT
Bingo!

Originally posted by pgwalsh
I think Apple should continue its focus on cleaning up OS X and making iApps. With the market in its condition right now, it doesn't make too much sense IMO to buck out a huge processor. I just don't think corporate budgets are looking to spend doe on new systems. Now, I think the time is to focus on implementing new technologies to there fullest.

IBM has a new fab facility in NY and Apple could outsource the development of a new processor. They can license new technologies from IBM and MOTO. Maybe that's what they're doing and it's just going to take some time (which I think they have) to reach fruition. Wouldn't it be better to launch your bad a$$ products when the market turns up instead of during a depression? Save the doe and focus on doing what you do best - making a solid OS with incredible apps - appeal to those that strife WXP and don't need the power.

Believe you me, I want a pentium crushing CPU as much as the next person, but I have some reservations about releasing anything right now. It would be great for me, but not necessarily for Apple. I'm in the market for a new Mac and I'd like to see more options but I can deal with the new machines like I have with my G3 400 for the past four years.

I’m coming from a perspective of a power user too. Think I like waiting an hour and a half for premier to render a 10minute clip? Ha!
.
I think you hit it right on the nose. While everyone is complaining about not having the best NOW, Apple is doing something. You may not think so, but the Apple I know always has something up it's sleeves. And I think that the end of the depression is one thing that they are waiting for. I edit video also and would alway love a better machine, but I'm doing fine as it is. If you didn't read pgwalsh's post, you should and think about what is in Apple's best interest.

P-Worm
 

Ibjr

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2002
513
21
Eastern seaboard
Re: Photoshop fine

Originally posted by rmac


I may be in the minority here, but I'm perfectly happy with my G4 450.
I used a p3 for years, then saw a cheap shuttle (Think Cube) and bought it, 1.8 ghz, there is a difference, especially when dealing with video. If mac wants to be a virtual hub they need a processor. Yes I could encode w/ xvid at 3 frames a second, now I get over 100.
 

Ibjr

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2002
513
21
Eastern seaboard
Re: Bingo!

Originally posted by P-Worm


I think you hit it right on the nose. While everyone is complaining about not having the best NOW, Apple is doing something. You may not think so, but the Apple I know always has something up it's sleeves. And I think that the end of the depression is one thing that they are waiting for. I edit video also and would alway love a better machine, but I'm doing fine as it is. If you didn't read pgwalsh's post, you should and think about what is in Apple's best interest.

P-Worm
yes this has been said before, right before MWNY. I waited. So instead of getting a mac, i'm using wintel. 600, P4 1.8 ghz L2512, USB 2.0, Firewire, DDR300, and the only part of this comp that makes noise is the 40CDRW firewire and the Hardrive.

As Intel ramps up speed and PCs like this become even cheaper Mac’s market share will continue to decline. Ghz may be a myth, but this speed gap sells.
 

MikeH

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2002
104
0
**** hot processors are all well and good but without good peripheral support (ie. Scanners for the most part) it's all a waste of time.

If got a two year old Nikon Coolscan III (SCSI) and a Swift Scan card reader sitting next to me that won't work in OS X, and the prospect of paying £700 for something that might work with OS X doesn't appeal. I'm ready to accept that my four year old printer A3+ (£500 for the one I want) needs renewing but I'm buggered if I'm buying new everything just because Apple can't sort their peripheral support out.

I don't care how many Mhz you wave in front of me or how pretty the GUI is, unless I can do what I want with the hardware it's nothing more than a glorified paper weight.
 

prewwii

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2001
68
0
Gulf area Alabama
Cost of upgrading......vs....performance

OS X or XP, choosing either for the first time will cause us
-- reach deep to upgrade software we already have for the previous OS,

-- reach deep to replace hardware we already have because there is no support on the newer OS.

-- reach deep to get additional processing power to regain interface performance we're familiar with in the current OS of choice.

In Apple's case there is no significant performance to buy at any price. While Apple tauts there latest 1.25 ghz processor, Intel is preparing to release their 3 ghz P4 and have demo'ed a beta 4.7ghz version.

The question is where to spend our money for the most bang. Once inside the application the differences between the two OS camps is becoming a blurry line.

I have use Mac's since 1986 and will not upgrade another time until there is a return on investment. Show me the money.
 

pgwalsh

macrumors 68000
Jun 21, 2002
1,639
218
New Zealand
Re: Cost of upgrading......vs....performance

Originally posted by prewwii
OS X or XP, choosing either for the first time will cause us
-- reach deep to upgrade software we already have for the previous OS,

-- reach deep to replace hardware we already have because there is no support on the newer OS.

-- reach deep to get additional processing power to regain interface performance we're familiar with in the current OS of choice.

The question is where to spend our money for the most bang. Once inside the application the differences between the two OS camps is becoming a blurry line.

I have use Mac's since 1986 and will not upgrade another time until there is a return on investment. Show me the money.
Windows XP (eXPerimental) is a terrible OS. It crashes all the time. I have a few windows boxes and the headaches are with XP. Windows 2K is pretty damn solid, but they screwed up with XP. Mac OS X is solid and comes with some great applications.

If you recently bought a scanner, printer, digital camera and can't get it to work with OS X then that's a bummer. I did my homework before I bought products so everything I have works with OSX and OS 9. Not everyone is as fortunate and I understand his or her anger. If you want drivers, then bug the manufacture. If you need legacy adapters then you'll need to spend a few extra dollars.

So you're still using your 1986 machine? Well, there have been a lot of changes in hardware, software, and performance since then. If you can't see that then maybe you should look a little harder. If you're just word processing and using spreadsheets, then your point is well taken. Sounds like you're in a comfort zone or maybe you can see through all the marketing BS.
:D