Chechnya anti-gay purge.


cfedu

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Under the Moscow-backed local leader Ramzan Kadyrov, Chechnya has been rebuilt after two brutal separatist conflicts in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Kadyrov pledges allegiance to Vladimir Putin and a love for Russia, and in return the Kremlin turns a blind eye to human rights abuses. Critics say Kadyrov’s notorious battalions have long operated outside the law.

One day we too will have to turn a blind eye and be held ransomed. It happened in the UK when all those girls were raped 10 years ago, and is happening in Germany right now.
 

juanm

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One day we too will have to turn a blind eye and be held ransomed. It happened in the UK when all those girls were raped 10 years ago, and is happening in Germany right now.
The best way to avoid do that is to vote wisely...
... oh wait.
 

Ulenspiegel

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...If anyone thinks it's just ISIS doing sick sh** like this, think again...
Food for thought:

1. Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya, practised by 95% of those polled in Grozny in 2010. Chechens are overwhelmingly adherents to the Shafi'i Madhhab of Sunni Islam. The republic had converted to Islam between the 16th and the 19th centuries.

2. Caucasian Emirate.

3. There is a "Chechen Group" in IS army, consisting of nearly a thousand fighters who are from Chechnya.

4. Some of the leaders of IS are Chechens, like Akhmed Chatayev who is thought to have been the planner of the 2016 Istanbul airport attack.
 
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bandrews

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Food for thought:

1. Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya, practised by 95% of those polled in Grozny in 2010. Chechens are overwhelmingly adherents to the Shafi'i Madhhab of Sunni Islam. The republic having converted to Islam between the 16th and the 19th centuries.

2. Caucasian Emirate.

3. There is a "Chechen Group" in IS army, consisting of nearly a thousand fighters who are from Chechnya.

4. Some of the leaders of IS are Chechens, like Akhmed Chatayev who is thought to have been the planner of the 2016 Istanbul airport attack.

Yes, but having chechens in IS is very different to having IS running Chechnya. There are many ISIS fighters from the UK. Doesn't mean the UK is run by islamic extremists.

Chechnya is a republic of Russia and although Kadyrov has pretty much free-reign, he was put there by Putin and is loyal to him.

This is state sanctioned abuse that could easily be stopped by Russia if they gave a ****.
 
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Ulenspiegel

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Yes, but having chechens in IS is very different to having IS running Chechnya. There are many ISIS fighters from the UK. Doesn't mean the UK is run by islamic extremists.

Chechnya is a republic of Russia and although Kadyrov has pretty much free-reign, he was put there by Putin and is loyal to him.

This is state sanctioned abuse that could easily be stopped by Russia if they gave a ****.
Once again:
1. "Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya".
2. Ramzan Kadyrov, the Head of the Chechen Republic is a muslim. His father, Akhmad Kadyrov, before becoming the President of the Republic of Chechnya, was the Chief Mufti of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Ramzan Kadyrov's human rights abuses, violations have been ignored by Moscow as he is Putin's man.
 

b0fh666

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Once again:
1. "Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya".
2. Ramzan Kadyrov, the Head of the Chechen Republic is a muslim. His father, Akhmad Kadyrov, before becoming the President of the Republic of Chechnya, was the Chief Mufti of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Ramzan Kadyrov's human rights abuses, violations have been ignored by Moscow as he is Putin's man.
guess you need to rewrite this a few more times :-D
 

bandrews

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Once again:
1. "Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya".
2. Ramzan Kadyrov, the Head of the Chechen Republic is a muslim. His father, Akhmad Kadyrov, before becoming the President of the Republic of Chechnya, was the Chief Mufti of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Ramzan Kadyrov's human rights abuses, violations have been ignored by Moscow as he is Putin's man.
Yes. I understood the first time. My whole point being that this is permitted to go on - not in an ISIS run area (because let's face it, no amount of barbarity would surprise us there) but a state that is essentially a puppet of Russia.

But by all means, if you'd rather argue about what branch of Islam they're following than the fact this sick **** is going on and what can/should be done to stop it, I'm not interested.
 

obeygiant

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But by all means, if you'd rather argue about what branch of Islam they're following than the fact this sick **** is going on and what can/should be done to stop it, I'm not interested.
The point is that the problem is systemic within the religious ideology. Long term problem.

How do we stop this from happening in the short term? Try to get Russia to pressure them?
 
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Ulenspiegel

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Yes. I understood the first time. My whole point being that this is permitted to go on - not in an ISIS run area (because let's face it, no amount of barbarity would surprise us there) but a state that is essentially a puppet of Russia.

But by all means, if you'd rather argue about what branch of Islam they're following than the fact this sick **** is going on and what can/should be done to stop it, I'm not interested.
Unfortunately you didn't. The keyword in both cases (IS and Chechnya) is Islam and Sharia.
Kadyrov's violations of human rights will be ignored by Moscow until he remains loyal to Putin.
Yes, but having chechens in IS is very different to having IS running Chechnya. There are many ISIS fighters from the UK. Doesn't mean the UK is run by islamic extremists...

They are all followers of the same religion. This is the key.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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I saw a story on this. Showed gay people in Russia trying to help get those targeted people into Russia. You know things are bad when Russia looks like the better option for a gay person. Yikes! :eek:
 

Zenithal

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Chechen history is full of interesting things. In my travels to the east, I never dared setting foot there, mostly because there was a war going on. Coincidentally, there was a war brewing in the Balkans, too. I can go on for days, but I will repeat the words of many Russians I've met in those days and now. Chechens are a parasite in the Caucauses.
 

b0fh666

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Unfortunately you didn't. The keyword in both cases (IS and Chechnya) is Islam and Sharia.
Kadyrov's violations of human rights will be ignored by Moscow until he remains loyal to Putin.

They are all followers of the same religion. This is the key.
told ya :D

interesting that this crap somehow is putin's fault in the eyes of some
 
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BeeGood

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Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
Food for thought:

1. Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya, practised by 95% of those polled
This is literally the second thought that immediately came to mind after reading the title.

Yeah, this is what we should do. Try to get Russia to handle it without getting the US involved.
That would be ideal, but Putin has proven over and over that he doesn't care at all about human rights abuses carried out by his allies.
 

bandrews

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Unfortunately you didn't. The keyword in both cases (IS and Chechnya) is Islam and Sharia.
Kadyrov's violations of human rights will be ignored by Moscow until he remains loyal to Putin.

They are all followers of the same religion. This is the key.
Uganda is 84% Christian yet also has state sanctioned oppression of homosexuals.

Putin supports the Russian Orthodox Church and is overseeing an a move towards a more socially conservative Russia.

There are several Muslim or Muslim majority nations where homosexuality isn't illegal.

So isn't the issue here conservative, orthodox religion rather than Islam?
 

Ulenspiegel

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told ya :D..
You were right! ;)
Uganda is 84% Christian yet also has state sanctioned oppression of homosexuals.

Putin supports the Russian Orthodox Church and is overseeing an a move towards a more socially conservative Russia.

There are several Muslim or Muslim majority nations where homosexuality isn't illegal.

So isn't the issue here conservative, orthodox religion rather than Islam?
My last try. In both cases (IS and Chechnya) we are talking about radical Islam (Sharia). Worth reading the biography of Ramzan Kadyrov.
The relation of Putin and the Kadyrov family (i.e. Russia and the Chechen Republic) is more complex than the question of religion.
 
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blackfox

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Unfortunately you didn't. The keyword in both cases (IS and Chechnya) is Islam and Sharia.
Kadyrov's violations of human rights will be ignored by Moscow until he remains loyal to Putin.

They are all followers of the same religion. This is the key.
No - what is key is the context. During the Balkan wars in the 90s (to use a fairly recent example) -the Croats (catholic Christians) and the Serbians (orthodox Christians) fought each other and committed considerable atrocities - which go back historically btw - because there was a vacuum of power and order there during those times. Indonesia has 200 million plus muslims, and they do ok - because they're not a failed state. Afghanistan, Chechnya, former Yugoslavia (at the time) - all a hot mess (more or less). Religious fervor tends to take over. Also see Christian Africa.
 

Ulenspiegel

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No - what is key is the context. During the Balkan wars in the 90s (to use a fairly recent example) -the Croats (catholic Christians) and the Serbians (orthodox Christians) fought each other and committed considerable atrocities - which go back historically btw - because there was a vacuum of power and order there during those times. Indonesia has 200 million plus muslims, and they do ok - because they're not a failed state. Afghanistan, Chechnya, former Yugoslavia (at the time) - all a hot mess (more or less). Religious fervor tends to take over. Also see Christian Africa.
The thread title is "Chechnya anti-gay purge".
We are talking about the exactly same phenomenon (anti-gay purge) in different countries. And the same reason in both cases: religious radicalism (Islam, Sharia). It is not the "context" that kills but the same extremists who follow the "central religious text" to the word.
What concerns Indonesia "doing ok" in respect of homosexuals - news from 11 April 2017 (5 days ago).
Does it seem "ok" for you that in 2014, Aceh (Indonesia) introduced a law which punishes anybody caught engaging in consensual gay sex with 100 lashes, 100 months in jail or a fine of 1,000 grams of gold.
So much for the "context"/"failed state" argument.
 
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Zenithal

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No - what is key is the context. During the Balkan wars in the 90s (to use a fairly recent example) -the Croats (catholic Christians) and the Serbians (orthodox Christians) fought each other and committed considerable atrocities - which go back historically btw - because there was a vacuum of power and order there during those times. Indonesia has 200 million plus muslims, and they do ok - because they're not a failed state. Afghanistan, Chechnya, former Yugoslavia (at the time) - all a hot mess (more or less). Religious fervor tends to take over. Also see Christian Africa.
Just to clarify, the Balkan Wars happened in the beginning of the 20th century. You're referring to the Yugoslav Wars period, specifically the Croatian Independence War. This war is often overshadowed and ignored due the Bosnian War and Kosovo.
[doublepost=1492395769][/doublepost]
Yeah Trump's tax returns are so much more important than this.. or Libyan slave markets..

But god damn Trump won't release his tax returns...
Because you're comparing a recent event that occurred on the other side of the planet with something presidents before have done. Additionally, it's something that's been asked of Trump for over six months now. You think those who want to see them will give up simply because of what's being reported in Chechnya?

Now, I also don't see any current US politicians speaking out on the events unfolding in Chechnya apart from the rare condemnation through an announcement on their website. Nor did I see anything but condemnation (strong words) from Barack Obama's administration, Bush's, or Clintons's in the past. Everyone's willing to walk the walk and talk the talk, but not actually do anything apart from say a few words on the matter. I'd imagine most Americans and really anyone who'se not for gay marriage or gay rights (which should be human rights AFAIC), are rather happy about the Chechen situation. Simply because it's Muslims killing Muslims, and those being killed are reportedly gay. It's a win-win in their book.

I didn't see the Obama administration do a single thing when Isis was throwing gay people off of roofs of tall buildings or when the Afghan army regularly molested children. Funny enough, during Taliban rule, that carried the death penalty. Probably the only 'right' thing the Taliban did.
 
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obeygiant

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There is no law that I'm aware of that says a president should release his tax returns - a practice only recently begun with Nixon.

The real point is that there are many other things - important things - to be concerned about
 

MadeTheSwitch

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There is no law that I'm aware of that says a president should release his tax returns - a practice only recently begun with Nixon.
Recently? That's almost a half century. An entire lifetime for some people. You have a different scale of time than I do I guess.

The real point is that there are many other things - important things - to be concerned about
A potential conflict of interest and potential liability to a foreign government IS an important thing. It may be one of the most important things for a sovereign nation actually.
 
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