China Accuses Apple of 'Protecting Rioters' After Approving HKmap Live for the App Store

LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
5,434
10,325
Freedom and most types of governments do not mix.
What a ridiculous rhetoric piece of mindless nonsense

Some of the "most free" nations in the world have governmentts that are fairly active. The difference is, The governments are still responsible to the people in those countries and their politicians and governments are still accountable to the voters.

USA for example has regularly been falling on the freedom scale, Not because it has a government, because it's government has been essentially overrun by corrupt business interests and conglomerates. This has been allowed to happen due to heavy deregulations of entire industries and how they are allowed to interact with the government.

So instead of actually taking stock, and looking at why th US government is currently failing, youre answer is that ALL GOVERNMENTS = BAD.

This is nonsense and cmopletely, UTTERLY nonsense thing to say because it has zero grounding in reality.

You can look no further than your own Neighbour to the north. That shares the longest border with your country to see exactly how provably wrong you are. Canada is regularly rated as one of the most free countries in the world, and yet has a very strong, robust federalist government, with strong Provincial governments. And yet, Here we are, Extremely free. So much so that our national anthem even says it :p

you may detest the idea of government from a personal level. And I can only guess why you came to that conclusion. But so far, the reality of the world is in direct counter to what you claim that governments and freedom don't mix.
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socialism ok? you people are nuts. Socialism is just a bridge to totalitarianism.

any loss of rights or suppression of free speech is not ok.

socialism is just a slippery slope to economic disaster. we will all be equally worthless
This is factually incorrect.

Signed partially socialist countries around the world that haven't devolved into any sort of Totalitarianism.

this is also really unrelated to China situation as China isn't really socialist, but a party dictatorship masked as communism.
 

makitango

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2012
136
114
"Rioters" is an incorrect term. They are foreign-backed terrorists who do more than property damage, but derail _passenger_ trains and beat civilians and journalists, usually unprovoked. They have received at least $29 million dollars from a foreign government organization which is run by the head of the Contra program. They've met with Western government officials and are seen as being instructed by agents from the west working with them in HK. They wave American flags, and praise Trump and Neo-Nazi favourite "PePe" the frog through signs and spray paint. They ask the West to invade using their military.

Their goal is cripple the economy through fear, destruction of transportation infrastructure and violence that makes many afraid to leave their homes or open their businesses. And it's clearly a network, with leaders praised by war mongers. Remember when the US trained Al Qaeda and so many other violent groups? Pulling off the same in China will be hard, but that seems to be what the West hopes to do.

If I made an Al Qaeda app, to help extremists discuss, meet and locate one another, I'd be in big trouble. When the same is done to aid enemies of China, Apple approves it.

Integrating HK into China will be a slow process, they know this. After the outrageous murder of a Chinese girl by a HK teen who is now walking free, the justice system recommended a small step: extradition for crimes committed in other countries. HK folks can't just murder folks and then go home to face no punishment. But send in professionals in psyops, lie in the Western media, train and finance terrorists, and you have a may just get a new Eastern Contra style system that can damage the country at large.

But I think China is wise and will solve this attempt at proxy attack.
Enjoy saying what you want freely here which you can‘t in your f***ed up homeland without the risk of finding a cozy new home in detainment camps which were meant to be locked in the 20th century era.
This is not about being Western or Socialist/Communist/Capitalist/Democrat or whatever association you identify yourself or others. This is about giving people the choice to avoid agressive behaviour. Of course some can always exploit tools, but if you don‘t give all people all the tools, some would still be making fire with stones and your sweet pregnancy rates would skyrocket more than your dreams of social credit score.

edit: I know my post is already provocative and everything before the word „but“ is considered horse****, but: Why not legalize skinning people right on the street who don‘t agree with your regime? Just put up another shiny new „law“ in a colorful billboard with a nice sans serif font which protects the sweet gov... ehm citizens.
 
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ryuok

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2011
158
90
Hong Kong
Apple just removed the flag emoji of Taiwan for Hong Kong sold iOS 13.1.2 devices with region set to Hong Kong. That’s like wiping a country off the flag list for 7 million people, in order to please China.

That’s why I had great admirations for Steve Jobs. Jobs never kowtowed to China, or compromised his values for profit. He never even bothered to visit China once. What else would you visit China for other than money? Cook in comparison bends over backwards to please China, which is outrages as American consumers are still the biggest revenue source for Apple. How about respecting American values of free expression and civil liberties?
 

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
6,920
12,428
In between a rock and a hard place
That’s a different situation. Blitzchung was respresenting the company after agreeing to a contract. While I agree with him, Blizzard has every right to enforce their agreement.
You're right that Blizzard has every right to interpret their competition rules as they see fit. They also have the right to punish those who they deem to break the rules.
Here's the rule they referenced:

2019 HEARTHSTONE® GRANDMASTERS OFFICIAL COMPETITION RULES v1.4 p.12, Section 6.1 (o)
Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms.


Your characterization of representing Blizzard after agreeing to a contract is wrong. The guy was a gamer entering a tournament. He broke a competition rule. He didn't violate a contract. There's a big difference.

Companies are scared $#!+^*&& to lose that Chinese money. They realize investors generally don't care for moralizing and stances. They care about money. Lose their money, lose your job. Cause a little internet outrage... meh. The outraged will move on because there's always going to be something else to be outraged about in life.
 

HEK

macrumors 68040
Sep 24, 2013
3,348
5,790
US Eastern time zone
"Rioters" is an incorrect term. They are foreign-backed terrorists who do more than property damage, but derail _passenger_ trains and beat civilians and journalists, usually unprovoked. They have received at least $29 million dollars from a foreign government organization which is run by the head of the Contra program. They've met with Western government officials and are seen as being instructed by agents from the west working with them in HK. They wave American flags, and praise Trump and Neo-Nazi favourite "PePe" the frog through signs and spray paint. They ask the West to invade using their military.

Their goal is cripple the economy through fear, destruction of transportation infrastructure and violence that makes many afraid to leave their homes or open their businesses. And it's clearly a network, with leaders praised by war mongers. Remember when the US trained Al Qaeda and so many other violent groups? Pulling off the same in China will be hard, but that seems to be what the West hopes to do.

If I made an Al Qaeda app, to help extremists discuss, meet and locate one another, I'd be in big trouble. When the same is done to aid enemies of China, Apple approves it.

Integrating HK into China will be a slow process, they know this. After the outrageous murder of a Chinese girl by a HK teen who is now walking free, the justice system recommended a small step: extradition for crimes committed in other countries. HK folks can't just murder folks and then go home to face no punishment. But send in professionals in psyops, lie in the Western media, train and finance terrorists, and you have a may just get a new Eastern Contra style system that can damage the country at large.

But I think China is wise and will solve this attempt at proxy attack.
Does this sound like the party line or is it just me. Who on macrumors forums talks like this. Welcome to the forum to the Chinese military cyber forces. Which Apple devices do you own and use? Did you get the midnight green this time around? How is your cell reception?
 

FlyingDutch

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2019
169
224
Eindhoven (NL)
"Rioters" is an incorrect term. They are foreign-backed terrorists who do more than property damage, but derail _passenger_ trains and beat civilians and journalists, usually unprovoked. They have received at least $29 million dollars from a foreign government organization which is run by the head of the Contra program. They've met with Western government officials and are seen as being instructed by agents from the west working with them in HK. They wave American flags, and praise Trump and Neo-Nazi favourite "PePe" the frog through signs and spray paint. They ask the West to invade using their military.

Their goal is cripple the economy through fear, destruction of transportation infrastructure and violence that makes many afraid to leave their homes or open their businesses. And it's clearly a network, with leaders praised by war mongers. Remember when the US trained Al Qaeda and so many other violent groups? Pulling off the same in China will be hard, but that seems to be what the West hopes to do.

If I made an Al Qaeda app, to help extremists discuss, meet and locate one another, I'd be in big trouble. When the same is done to aid enemies of China, Apple approves it.

Integrating HK into China will be a slow process, they know this. After the outrageous murder of a Chinese girl by a HK teen who is now walking free, the justice system recommended a small step: extradition for crimes committed in other countries. HK folks can't just murder folks and then go home to face no punishment. But send in professionals in psyops, lie in the Western media, train and finance terrorists, and you have a may just get a new Eastern Contra style system that can damage the country at large.

But I think China is wise and will solve this attempt at proxy attack.
Do you know other interesting things that didn’t exist?
Are you Chinese, right ?
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Does this sound like the party line or is it just me. Who on macrumors forums talks like this. Welcome to the forum to the Chinese military cyber forces. Which Apple devices do you own and use? Did you get the midnight green this time around? How is your cell reception?
I’d like to give you 10 upvotes but I can’t.
 

luvbug

macrumors regular
Aug 11, 2017
192
425
Getting closer every day!
If Apple are smart, they will ramp up production of iPhones and other products here in the US, or at least in other democracies, so that they do not have to kowtow to the dictatorship in Beijing. It may cause costs to rise, but that's OK -- better to pay the proper cost of something and have a clear conscience than to pay less at the cost of supporting things that are bad.
Are you saying you actually consider the US a democracy? I don't and, for the sake of democracy, I hope Americans start to realize we gave it up nearly 20 years ago. Read the news? I have nothing against a conservative point of view, unfortunately the GOP gave up on the integrity tentpole that goes hand-in-hand with traditional conservatism and has decided instead to take over the country using *any* means necessary. That includes abandoning the rule of law. If you don't think the US is heading in the same direction as China, then you're not paying attention.
 

ryuok

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2011
158
90
Hong Kong

All because he was speaking Mandarin while grabbing lunch. Of course the police are no angels either, however if the rioters are looking to create something better, they need to prove that they are up to a higher standard.
Yes please do post more videos from BLOOMBERG - the biggest Chinese communist ass kisser. China must have got something on Michael Bloomberg.
 
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FlyingDutch

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2019
169
224
Eindhoven (NL)
Apple just removed the flag emoji of Taiwan for Hong Kong sold iOS 13.1.2 devices with region set to Hong Kong. That’s like wiping a country off the flag list for 7 million people, in order to please China.

That’s why I had great admirations for Steve Jobs. Jobs never kowtowed to China, or compromised his values for profit. He never even bothered to visit China once. What else would you visit China for other than money? Cook in comparison bends over backwards to please China, which is outrages as American consumers are still the biggest revenue source for Apple. How about respecting American values of free expression and civil liberties?
I’d like Apple to stop selling things in China, entirely. But I know those are big money and Apple is all about money...
 
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ryuok

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2011
158
90
Hong Kong
I thought so too at first, but I think Mansu944 nailed it. This is most likeky al Chinese CyberOps account. Creepy to see them here on such a random tech fan site.
The Chinese government employs millions of internet commentators, including divisions inside the army as well as students earning academic points by working part time. It’s the biggest disinformation operation in the world, funded out of the “stability management” budget which is now even higher than China’s military budget. It’s without doubt a state sponsored act to pollute and interfere with people’s space of free speech. I wouldn’t be surprised if this website is on its long list of monitored sites.
 
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jdclifford

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2011
426
564
Apple just removed the flag emoji of Taiwan for Hong Kong sold iOS 13.1.2 devices with region set to Hong Kong. That’s like wiping a country off the flag list for 7 million people, in order to please China.

That’s why I had great admirations for Steve Jobs. Jobs never kowtowed to China, or compromised his values for profit. He never even bothered to visit China once. What else would you visit China for other than money? Cook in comparison bends over backwards to please China, which is outrages as American consumers are still the biggest revenue source for Apple. How about respecting American values of free expression and civil liberties?
Would TC have done the same if the issue were LGBTQ rights?
 
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lixuelai

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Lord Hamsa

macrumors 6502a
Jul 16, 2013
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First rule of appeasing tyrants and bullies: no matter what you do, it's never enough. They will always come back and demand more.

There's a lot of short-term profit to be made in China, but the long-term costs aren't worth it.
 
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konqerror

macrumors 6502a
Dec 31, 2013
773
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Your characterization of representing Blizzard after agreeing to a contract is wrong. The guy was a gamer entering a tournament. He broke a competition rule. He didn't violate a contract. There's a big difference.
Not supporting what happened, but competition rules do form a legally binding contract on all sides. Any agreement between two parties that have certain traits (offer, acceptance, consideration) is a contract. Even an oral statement, "I'll mow your lawn for $5" "Sure", forms a contract.
 

HEK

macrumors 68040
Sep 24, 2013
3,348
5,790
US Eastern time zone
The Chinese government employs millions of internet commentators, including divisions inside the army as well as students earning academic points by working part time. It’s the biggest disinformation operation in the world, funded out of the “stability management” budget which is now even higher than China’s military budget. It’s without doubt a state sponsored act to pollute and interfere with people’s space of free speech. I wouldn’t be surprised if this website is on its long list of monitored sites.
Thank you for passing on this intel. The more we know the better we can discern and defend against this cyber slanting.

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck and spouts dogma like cyber disinformation post, it’s mostly likely state sponsored.

Reader be ware.

it’s on the internet, so it must be true !
RIGHT............
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,805
1,697
Western US
It seems to me that the time when we have high tariffs in China would be the best time to move manufacturing elsewhere. I realize this can’t be done overnight but it feels inevitable now, China is only getting worse, Apple’s positions are getting more conflicted and untenable, and Apple’s marketshare in China has been dropping dramatically anyway.
 

LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
5,434
10,325
He broke a competition rule. He didn't violate a contract. There's a big difference.
They are one in the same. By signing up for the competition, he is entering a binding contract to adhere to the rules of the competition.

The issue here really is the vagueness of that rule. it essentially gives Blizzard untold power to dictate who qualifies or not.

However, by signing up for that tournament, he is signing up that he accepts the rules in place by Blizzard.
 

makitango

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2012
136
114
They are one in the same. By signing up for the competition, he is entering a binding contract to adhere to the rules of the competition.

The issue here really is the vagueness of that rule. it essentially gives Blizzard untold power to dictate who qualifies or not.

However, by signing up for that tournament, he is signing up that he accepts the rules in place by Blizzard.
This is more like Activision rather than Blizzard. Blizzard died a slow death once they got eaten by the A guys.
 

ryuok

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2011
158
90
Hong Kong
Lol so much hate for Bloomberg, did they overcharge you on their terminal subscription...

Anyway in case HKFP floats your boat better: https:///2019/10/06/video-video-mainlander-assaulted-hong-kong-sparks-outrage-china/. HKFP try their best to justify it but even they admit that this 'reflects poorly'.
Again the source is Bloomberg. And let’s say it’s unjustified - am I suppose to discredit the entire movement based on one incident? Two million people marched peacefully demanding an independent commission of inquiry, and universal suffrage, both within the framework of one country two systems, only to be met with police brutalities and China backed thugs and triad members. If this happened in the States - 30% of population marching to demand a reform only to brutally cracked down - you’d see people taking down the government with guns.

Only a totalitarianism regime like China would use triad and thugs to beat up protestors, under the protection of the police, among whom the more brutal ones get invited by Beijing to attend its national day military parade. What a fascist regime this is. How much more barbarian can you get? And you want me to focus on one incident of the protest reported by Bloomberg? Give me a break!
 

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
6,920
12,428
In between a rock and a hard place
Not supporting what happened, but competition rules do form a legally binding contract on all sides. Any agreement between two parties that have certain traits (offer, acceptance, consideration) is a contract. Even an oral statement, "I'll mow your lawn for $5" "Sure", forms a contract.
Fair enough, but...
They are one in the same. By signing up for the competition, he is entering a binding contract to adhere to the rules of the competition.

The issue here really is the vagueness of that rule. it essentially gives Blizzard untold power to dictate who qualifies or not.

However, by signing up for that tournament, he is signing up that he accepts the rules in place by Blizzard.
this is kinda threadjacking so I'm going to cut it short.

On topic: The larger point is Blizzard is like every other company with significant business in China. None of them want to rock that boat. The financial consequences are too great for them. The moral consequences? Meh. We won't even remember a month from now.
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If this happened in the States - 30% of population marching to demand a reform only to brutally cracked down...
Heh. You don't know US history do you?
 
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iReality85

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2008
863
1,610
Upstate NY
Not supporting what happened, but competition rules do form a legally binding contract on all sides. Any agreement between two parties that have certain traits (offer, acceptance, consideration) is a contract. Even an oral statement, "I'll mow your lawn for $5" "Sure", forms a contract.
Contract, competition rules, or not, that does not absolve Blizzard from ridicule. Them citing a breach-of-whatever over someone standing up for democracy is ridiculous.
 
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