Civil Asset Forfeiture

Mac'nCheese

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Feb 9, 2010
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Sydde

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Aug 17, 2009
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I have gone a-traveling with $2000 cash, and never had a problem. The trick is to keep the money on your person (in 50s + 20s, $2000 is a fairly small stack). That way, if the cops ask how much money is in your car, you can say "none" or "about seventeen fifty or so, in the armrest."
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
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That way, if the cops ask how much money is in your car, you can say "none" or "about seventeen fifty or so, in the armrest."
No. The correct response to that question is:

Respectfully, Officer, I do not have to answer that.

If the cop asks to look around your car, you tell them:

I'm sorry, Officer, but I do not consent to searches.

If he says that if you refuse a search, he's going to blah..blah..blah (whatever he comes up with) then you say:

Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?

Memorize these courteous but firm phrases. But don't think that you're "helping the cops out" if you let them search your car or person without a warrant.

Once you give consent to search, or admit to having X amount of cash - then you are immediately at a disadvantage. If you refuse to give consent, but he gets a K9 that finds something of yours that the cops impound - then it is much easier for a lawyer to challenge the search - and get your money back. The lawyer can go before a Judge and argue, on very strong grounds, that the search was illegal or unreasonable. And if the cop seized money without finding drugs or other contraband, most likely the cop is in trouble. Not you. But that only works if you refuse to give consent or answer questions.

What damn business of the cops is it if you have a thousand or ten thousand or a million dollars in cash with you? If they think you are a drug dealer or terrorist - then let them go before a Judge and come up with probably cause as to why they need a warrant.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
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Cities and other municipalities have been using the legalized government theft called civil asset forfeiture for many, many years.
Years ago (ca. 1990?), I recall reading a series of articles about civil asset forfeiture in the Rocky Mountain News. That newspaper won some awards back then somewhere, so, this may have been an investigation that won an award, I'm not sure.

In any case, it was educational for me, because it explained why poor people were disproportionately affected by these practices that I had assumed were only used against the Mafia. (I was wrong.) It turned out to be a tax on the poor, who were and probably still are much more likely to use cash to buy a used car, for example. And who can't afford to challenge an asset seizure in court and wait years for the resolution.
 

Naimfan

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Jan 15, 2003
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Back when I was actively practicing law, I was pulled over after leaving a hearing.

When the officer asked how I was, I simply said, "No offense intended, officer, but I don't wish to have a conversation with you."

He then asked if I wanted to know why he pulled me over. "With all respect, officer, now you're conducting an investigation and I really don't want to have a conversation with you."

Next, he asked if he could search my car. "Not without a properly executed search warrant," I replied.

The light bulb finally went off - I was wearing a suit, had a briefcase in the front seat, etc. "Are you a lawyer?" he asked.

"Yes. Am I free to go?"

To his credit, he simply handed back my license, registration, and insurance, and said to have a nice day. I still have no idea why he pulled me over.

The below is generally accurate, and if you're polite but firm, you'll generally have no trouble.

No. The correct response to that question is:

Respectfully, Officer, I do not have to answer that.

If the cop asks to look around your car, you tell them:

I'm sorry, Officer, but I do not consent to searches.

If he says that if you refuse a search, he's going to blah..blah..blah (whatever he comes up with) then you say:

Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?

Memorize these courteous but firm phrases. But don't think that you're "helping the cops out" if you let them search your car or person without a warrant.

Once you give consent to search, or admit to having X amount of cash - then you are immediately at a disadvantage. If you refuse to give consent, but he gets a K9 that finds something of yours that the cops impound - then it is much easier for a lawyer to challenge the search - and get your money back. The lawyer can go before a Judge and argue, on very strong grounds, that the search was illegal or unreasonable. And if the cop seized money without finding drugs or other contraband, most likely the cop is in trouble. Not you. But that only works if you refuse to give consent or answer questions.

What damn business of the cops is it if you have a thousand or ten thousand or a million dollars in cash with you? If they think you are a drug dealer or terrorist - then let them go before a Judge and come up with probably cause as to why they need a warrant.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
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Land of the free donut?
I used to work at Dunkin's. Yes, we gave free doughnuts to police officers. However, that was because we were open all night and near a major highway, and therefore vulnerable to robbery. Somebody was indeed murdered at the reception desk of the motel across the street from us one night....
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
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Midlife, Midwest
With all due respect to my British and European friends, the United States is still a pretty good place for (capital F) Freedom.

I look at Britain where my mother and brother both live, and while I love visiting there, there are a few things that would make me a little uncomfortable. A (short list.)

1) Excessive Political Correctness. I'm totally against racism, sexism, etc. But there is a difference between institutional racism - and individual stupidity. In the John Terry case a couple years ago, where he yelled abuse at another player. I was amazed that he was criminally charged, and stood trial for this. In short - he deserved to be fined and suspended by the Football Association. But for the Government to regulate (stupid) speech is a bit much.

2) Excessive Government Control. We have zoning and building codes in the US. And historical districts. But nothing like what English Heritage has done. Basically, if you own an old mansion in Britain, you have to ask permission to do virtually anything to the property.

3) Crazy restrictions. Last year I tried to buy some isopropyl alcohol in a Boots in Hampshire. (I wanted to get some ink off a carpet.) And was amazed to learn it had all but been banned from retail sales.

4) The pervasive surveillance cameras. I guess I can understand them in large cities. But they literally seem to be everywhere.

5) Class system. Yeah - its changed. But it hasn't gone away. People are still judged by their accents and where they went to school. And socializing across class lines still seems very restricted. My brother teased me for making a joke with a guy who worked in the local Sainsburys. And apparently, if you didn't go to a good public school (ie. come from an upper-middle class background) - the enlisted men of the SAS will blackball you as a potential officer. I cannot imagine a similar situation in the US military. Ever.

6) Health & Safety gone wild. Any work on a building above shoulder height requires (very expensive) scaffolding. Doing any sort of residential or commercial maintenance requires an army of different guys. I once watched eight guys standing around watching the ninth cut down a tree. In the States it would have been two guys, and pickup truck and a chain saw. They'd have gotten the job done before the Brits had erected the two layers of orange-striped barricade.

Yeah: The cops in the United States can be abusive and bullying, if you get on the wrong side of them. And the NSA went way over the line on domestic spying. But I can still be wrong about the Holocaust and rewire my kitchen without having to beg permission of some unelected Bureaucrats.
 

Ironduke

Suspended
Nov 12, 2006
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England
With all due respect to my British and European friends, the United States is still a pretty good place for (capital F) Freedom.

I look at Britain where my mother and brother both live, and while I love visiting there, there are a few things that would make me a little uncomfortable. A (short list.)

1) Excessive Political Correctness. I'm totally against racism, sexism, etc. But there is a difference between institutional racism - and individual stupidity. In the John Terry case a couple years ago, where he yelled abuse at another player. I was amazed that he was criminally charged, and stood trial for this. In short - he deserved to be fined and suspended by the Football Association. But for the Government to regulate (stupid) speech is a bit much.
where as the USA is a free for all where people are allowed to say anything even if its total horse ****, and that includes Politicians. I thought Brit politicians were liars and then i watched your populous being bombarded with utter junk over the space of a month costing hundreds of millions of dollars, disgusting.

2) Excessive Government Control. We have zoning and building codes in the US. And historical districts. But nothing like what English Heritage has done. Basically, if you own an old mansion in Britain, you have to ask permission to do virtually anything to the property.
lol violently like you have much that is that old lol

3) Crazy restrictions. Last year I tried to buy some isopropyl alcohol in a Boots in Hampshire. (I wanted to get some ink off a carpet.) And was amazed to learn it had all but been banned from retail sales.
blah blah you will find many european goods banned in the us because they have not passed some of you're tests or protocols

4) The pervasive surveillance cameras. I guess I can understand them in large cities. But they literally seem to be everywhere.
good they record people acting the **** head and help solve crimes, every friday night people spew all over the streets infront of these cameras and dont get pinched.

5) Class system. Yeah - its changed. But it hasn't gone away. People are still judged by their accents and where they went to school. And socializing across class lines still seems very restricted. My brother teased me for making a joke with a guy who worked in the local Sainsburys. And apparently, if you didn't go to a good public school (ie. come from an upper-middle class background) - the enlisted men of the SAS will blackball you as a potential officer. I cannot imagine a similar situation in the US military. Ever.
you have far more snobs then us now, snobbery follows the money



6) Health & Safety gone wild. Any work on a building above shoulder height requires (very expensive) scaffolding. Doing any sort of residential or commercial maintenance requires an army of different guys. I once watched eight guys standing around watching the ninth cut down a tree. In the States it would have been two guys, and pickup truck and a chain saw. They'd have gotten the job done before the Brits had erected the two layers of orange-striped barricade.

Yeah: The cops in the United States can be abusive and bullying, if you get on the wrong side of them. And the NSA went way over the line on domestic spying. But I can still be wrong about the Holocaust and rewire my kitchen without having to beg permission of some unelected Bureaucrats.
total over the top nonsense
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
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With all due respect to my British and European friends, the United States is still a pretty good place for (capital F) Freedom.

--

Yeah: The cops in the United States can be abusive and bullying, if you get on the wrong side of them. And the NSA went way over the line on domestic spying. But I can still be wrong about the Holocaust and rewire my kitchen without having to beg permission of some unelected Bureaucrats.
It has been a while since I visited, but, sure, the nanny state in the UK can be a bit much.

On the other hand, it sure is nice being able to walk around without constant fear of being shot by a criminal, a householder afraid of criminals, or a policeman.

This is not freedom:

Concern and Anger After a Toddler Is Killed
By NIKITA STEWARTOCT. 12, 2014

IRVINGTON, N.J. — Sania Cunningham, 15 months, was bouncing up and down on a bed — the kind of game that can bring a toddler to uncontrollable giggles.

Then a stray bullet tore through a wall of the apartment and into the little girl, taking her life as her parents looked on in horror.

They had just moved in, arriving two days earlier to live with relatives in a second-floor apartment in the house, officials said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/13/nyregion/concern-and-anger-after-a-toddler-is-killed.html
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
May 23, 2010
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Shady Dale, Georgia
I used to work at Dunkin's. Yes, we gave free doughnuts to police officers. However, that was because we were open all night and near a major highway, and therefore vulnerable to robbery. Somebody was indeed murdered at the reception desk of the motel across the street from us one night....
My first wife worked at Krispy Kreme donuts for a while. Her first day working the register an officer in uniform came in got donuts and coffee. She rang him up and told him $5.50 (or whatever the price was) and he tapped his badge. She said that's great, now that will be $5.50, he paid. Her boss, the owner later explained how to ring an officer on the register.
 

Naimfan

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Jan 15, 2003
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She rang him up and told him $5.50 (or whatever the price was) and he tapped his badge. She said that's great, now that will be $5.50, he paid.
That is exactly how it SHOULD go.

The owner telling her how to "ring an officer at the register," is, bluntly put, obscene. And, in some states, flatly illegal.
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
May 23, 2010
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Shady Dale, Georgia
That is exactly how it SHOULD go.

The owner telling her how to "ring an officer at the register," is, bluntly put, obscene. And, in some states, flatly illegal.
It isn't obscene or illegal. He owns the business he can feel free to give away his donuts and coffee to anyone that he wishes. He does it to keep them coming by more often, to minimize the chances of being robbed. The way that you rang an officer at that store was instead of entering a payment you pressed a blue button and entered the badge number. It would then come up with "Thank You - Have a Nice Day" on the customer screen.
 

Naimfan

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It isn't obscene or illegal. He owns the business he can feel free to give away his donuts and coffee to anyone that he wishes. He does it to keep them coming by more often, to minimize the chances of being robbed. The way that you rang an officer at that store was instead of entering a payment you pressed a blue button and entered the badge number. It would then come up with "Thank You - Have a Nice Day" on the customer screen.
It IS obscene - your own example demonstrated an enormous entitlement mentality from someone sworn to serve, not take.

And in my state, it is indeed flatly illegal to give any public employee anything of value.
 

Roric

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2005
176
33
WI
And in my state, it is indeed flatly illegal to give any public employee anything of value.
Have you tasted a KK donut? The only "value" there is the coffee that washes down and masks the taste of the donut!
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
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Scotland
My first wife worked at Krispy Kreme donuts for a while. ....
Krispy Kreme ... the dark side. :p

It IS obscene - your own example demonstrated an enormous entitlement mentality from someone sworn to serve, not take.

And in my state, it is indeed flatly illegal to give any public employee anything of value.
Erm... have you ever worked night shifts (say midnight to 6AM) in a place open to the public? This isn't a matter of law, but survival....
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
May 23, 2010
1,532
547
Shady Dale, Georgia
You'd think KK would be under pressure for fattening up and slowing down so many cops :p
Around here Quik Trip and RaceTrak give free coffee to LEO. There's a BP in Lawrenceville, that often sees a lot of LEO traffic because they give them a good discount. They've never been robbed.

Krispy Kreme ... the dark side. :p

Erm... have you ever worked night shifts (say midnight to 6AM) in a place open to the public? This isn't a matter of law, but survival....
My ex-wife worked there about a year. They were robbed at least five times during that time. Only once when she was on shift. Her last day. She quit right after the police were done doing the report. No gun but a very big guy who grabbed the cash register drawer when she opened it. She ran to the office and locked herself in, he stole the money in the drawer and some donuts.

She wouldn't even come out when the police arrived. She made him put his badge under the door.
 

Naimfan

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Around here Quik Trip and RaceTrak give free coffee to LEO. There's a BP in Lawrenceville, that often sees a lot of LEO traffic because they give them a good discount. They've never been robbed.



My ex-wife worked there about a year. They were robbed at least five times during that time. Only once when she was on shift. Her last day. She quit right after the police were done doing the report. No gun but a very big guy who grabbed the cash register drawer when she opened it. She ran to the office and locked herself in, he stole the money in the drawer and some donuts.

She wouldn't even come out when the police arrived. She made him put his badge under the door.
Ah, she needed a gun!

;)
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
Around here Quik Trip and RaceTrak give free coffee to LEO. There's a BP in Lawrenceville, that often sees a lot of LEO traffic because they give them a good discount. They've never been robbed.
"See this rock? It repels tigers"

"How does it work?"

"Well, do you see any Tigers?"

"I'd like to buy that rock"
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,058
395
No. The correct response to that question is:

Respectfully, Officer, I do not have to answer that.

If the cop asks to look around your car, you tell them:

I'm sorry, Officer, but I do not consent to searches.

If he says that if you refuse a search, he's going to blah..blah..blah (whatever he comes up with) then you say:

Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?

Memorize these courteous but firm phrases. But don't think that you're "helping the cops out" if you let them search your car or person without a warrant.

Once you give consent to search, or admit to having X amount of cash - then you are immediately at a disadvantage. If you refuse to give consent, but he gets a K9 that finds something of yours that the cops impound - then it is much easier for a lawyer to challenge the search - and get your money back. The lawyer can go before a Judge and argue, on very strong grounds, that the search was illegal or unreasonable. And if the cop seized money without finding drugs or other contraband, most likely the cop is in trouble. Not you. But that only works if you refuse to give consent or answer questions.

What damn business of the cops is it if you have a thousand or ten thousand or a million dollars in cash with you? If they think you are a drug dealer or terrorist - then let them go before a Judge and come up with probably cause as to why they need a warrant.

Absolutely brilliant advice.

At least in the U.S.

----------

With all due respect to my British and European friends, the United States is still a pretty good place for (capital F) Freedom.

I look at Britain where my mother and brother both live, and while I love visiting there, there are a few things that would make me a little uncomfortable. A (short list.)
Confirmed Anglophile here, but you are unfortunately on-target.

Add to the list:

o You must have a license and pay a fee if to own a television. Remember: a license is governmental permission. Ergo, you must have governmental permission to own a television.

o Bobbies go from door to door making people pop the bonnets of their cars so windshield-wiper fluid level may be checked, and issuing citations if levels are found to be below the statutory minimum.

...

It's sad, and more than a little uncomfortable to witness. But Britain is not free.