Civil Unions for Heterosexuals?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ender land, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 26, 2010
    #1
    A friend of mine was recently lamenting how she could not get a civil union (as a heterosexual couple) and avoid the religious undertones of marriage in a state where you could as a gay couple.

    I had never thought about this before. Is there a reason this would be the case or has this discussion come up before as a result of the gay marriage/civil union saga in the USA over the past years? From the information I have been able to find very few states have this sort of relationship for both gay/heterosexual couples (sometimes called domestic partnerships rather than civil unions).
     
  2. mentaluproar macrumors 68000

    mentaluproar

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    #2
    No hetero civil unions! They would destroy the sanctity of it!
     
  3. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #3
    Marriage is not primarily religious. Non-believers have been getting married all along and religious people never said a word, because what they really care about is not reserving marriage for their religion, but just punishing gay people for being gay. Don't listen to the BS. Get married proudly and support every adult's right to do the same.
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #4
    Why doesn't your friend and her boyfriend just go to a Justice of the Peace to get hitched? Nothing religious about that.
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Over 15 years ago I wed my wife in our own backyard.

    The ceremony was officiated by the County Clerk and witnessed by our two friends.

    It was as civil a union as any marriage could be.

    I don't know what your friend is complaining about.
     
  6. Queso macrumors G4

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    #6
    Tell your friend that despite the brainwashing she's obviously succumbed to marriage does not belong to religion. It belongs to the community. Religion has pushed its way into the equation over the centuries as yet another insidious way in which it tries to justify itself by inserting itself into life's natural events. However, marriage is OUR institution, not theirs. We choose what it is.
     
  7. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #7
    You do realize that is was called the Spanish Inquisition, right? ;)
     

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  8. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #8
    My cousin got married last month and there was no mention of god, jesus or anything religious in the ceremony. Not sure who officiated it (county clerk or judge?) but it was a great, religious free ceremony.
     
  9. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #9
    I got married by my mayor, also no mention of God.
     
  10. AhmedFaisal Guest

    #10
    Wife and I got married in Germany in a civil "ceremony". Quotation marks around the ceremony part because all we did was sign the required papers at city hall because we had a non-denominational religious ceremony on the Beach in California. Our priest was a very nice fellow who against official church doctrine also married gay couples for religious purposes and was also very excited about doing it for legal purposes once Prop 8 was taken care of.

    As for the German civil ceremony if you want the whole shebang there is no religious talk in it either from what we could glean, if fact, the lady we set things up with was very explicit that if we wanted religious elements, that we would need to have that in a separate ceremony with a priest as they were not allowed to do it.
     
  11. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #11
    Perhaps we need to have more of these civil unions in order to avoid the serious incivility the comes to attend some marriages.
     
  12. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #12
    If it were up to me the government would get out of the business of marriage entirely. Let any two consenting adults enter into a civil union for tax and benefit purposes and leave marriage ceremonies where they belong....in churches.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    BS! Religion did not start marriage and they do NOT own it. Marriage belongs to everyone. This is a free country, dammit.
     
  14. Queso macrumors G4

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    #14
    Nope. Churches don't own marriage, and I for one refuse to cede it to them. Let them be the ones to rename their Bronze Age ceremonies, whilst consenting adults get married to whomever they wish.
     
  15. Andeavor macrumors 6502

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    Aug 19, 2010
    #15
    You have it the wrong way around. The whole point of marriage is to change your legal relation to your government, including taxes, inheritance, etc. The wedding ceremony held in church is only symbolic, in the end you still have to sign a marriage license the state set up for you.
     
  16. trouble747 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    ...except lots of people don't get married in churches. Now, if you're stating that a church should not be forced to conduct a marriage ceremony for just anyone, I agree. But because secular marriage ceremonies clearly exist in this country, it doesn't make any sense to assert that marriage ceremonies belong in churches.

    Furthermore...there ARE churches that will marry gay couples. So...?
     
  17. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #17
    Agreed...that was my fault for choosing my words poorly. You can have a wedding anywhere. You don't need to be in the building to do something uplifting to God. I pray every day. Only once a week does that happen in church.

    The basis of my point was that I believe to marriage to be a religious institution, joining husband and wife together as one with God. Do I think that most marriages today are entered into with each person thinking that way? Obviously not. But just because people have trampled all over the concept of marriage doesn't mean I'm going to change the way I feel about it.

    And yes....I realize there are churches that perform weddings for gay couples. I believe that to be incredibly tragic, not because of some hatred towards gay couples, but because these places are doing it all under guise of the Word of God. If two people want to be together it is not my place to judge whether or not if they should. I do, however, have a problem with a church teaching a distorted view of what is and isn't acceptable according to the Bible.

    And I realize that my opinion is not a popular one for people that don't describe themselves as Christians....and that is fine. Just my $0.02 to go along with everyone else's.
     
  18. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #18
    No, the whole point of marriage is to let women eat whatever they want, stop having sex, and then get half of your stuff. Duh. ;)
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    Riiight. So when you say...

    ...what you actually mean is

    That's actually pretty sad as far as thought processes go. It's hard not to pity you, and I don't mean any malice in saying that.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    I'm perfectly happy to trample over your misconceptions.

    They're getting in the way of other peoples' freedom.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Yep. I could not care less what people believe, but when they try to make their beliefs infringe on everyone else, that's when we will have problems.
     
  22. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    I got married in a church and I am an atheist. The church didn't burn down. Marriage is about two people, not about some stupid religion.
     
  23. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #23
    You sound like a fairly reasonable guy, which is why it puzzles me that this needs explaining at all. You believe this because your religion says so. Not everyone follows your religion. The government legally cannot follow your religion. People were getting married long before your religion, and if your preferred end-times scenario comes to pass, depriving us infidels of your religion and all its adherents, people will still get married.

    They do this because, with or without the intervention of your deity, people love one another. They want to build a life together as a new family, and wish to solemnize that commitment before the community. And they wish for their government to respect that decision in all the customary ways. The word for that is "marriage."

    You may bring religion into that choice, on an individual basis, as you choose, just as you may into your life generally, but this fundamental thing people do does not belong to you or your preacher or your god, and you may not jealously steal it from everyone else just to gratify yourself. Attempting to do so just seems ignorant and hateful, and as I said, you do not sound like an ignorant and hateful guy.

    Nobody is asking you to give up your faith. I certainly would not. All I would ask is that you do what generations of your forebears have done contentedly: live your own religion, but respect that not everyone believes as you do, and that is a private matter between them and their own consciences. People who get married under a different belief system than yours harm you in no way, and if they are offending your god, then they will suffer in whatever ways you'd care to imagine for it, but not by your own hand. You have neither the responsibility nor the authority to execute your god's judgment on his behalf.
     
  24. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Would government getting out of "marriage" and only issuing "civil unions" help at all with the gay marriage issue?

    I.e. the government recognizes an exclusive contract between any two consenting adults. It's called a civil union, and you get one by signing a contract at City Hall (or in front of some deputized officer of the state) with two witnesses present.

    A civil union will then be what's recognized by hospitals, schools, insurance companies, the IRS, the INS, etc. for all of the conveniences, responsibilities, legal rights, etc. that come along with what we currently term "marriage".

    If you want something called a "marriage" that's solely between you and your partner and your conscience -- you can have whatever additional separate ceremony you want, whether that's a Christian marriage ceremony, some rite where you jump over a burning log holding hands, or a completely secular reading of vows in front of a bunch of friends. Or no ceremony whatsoever, if you prefer.

    But "marriage" doesn't have any legal standing. And a civil union must be recognized by any organization (be it a Christian church, a bank, or the local quilting club) for any matters of temporal law but not for spiritual purposes.
     
  25. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #25
    I agree with every inch of your last paragraph. I just don't see the need to have a government seal on a marriage license. The government only needs to be in there to solidify the legal agreement needed for shared assets, benefits, and tax purposes.

    Outside of that I see no real reason why the government should licensing love.
     

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