Climate change

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rampant.A.I., Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Rampant.A.I., Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012

    Rampant.A.I. macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Since the pro choice thread careened wildly off topic toward another forum favorite, there seems to be some startling new evidence that human activity has no effect on the planet, let alone the climate.

    I'd like to see this evidence.

    Most of us are familiar with the carbon exchange cycle:

    [​IMG]

    And that human-created pollution continues to affect it. So how, I wonder, is climate not affected by ecosystems changed by our input?

    The argument made by climate change deniers seems very similar to the arguments given by evolution deniers:

    <Evolution can be divided into Micro and Macro evolution. Micro evolution is observable, Macro evolution is not.>

    Most people with a little bit of knowledge on the topic recognize this as a false dilemma. Not only does no one in the field divide the theory of evolution (process of how life changes over generations) into Micro vs. Macro, the claim that part of the theory isn't observable is patently false.

    And yet, simply by creating a diversion, creationists are able to distract the lay person into believing there's a problem with the theory of evolution as a whole.

    The same thing seems to be going on with the perception of climate change: Most people will admit that changes in the climate are taking place, simply but deny that it's human-created.
     
  2. simsaladimbamba

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  3. q64ceo macrumors regular

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    Aug 13, 2010
    #3
    Its amazing how we can politicize every single thing in existence.

    Its not about science, its about stoping the other team from scoring a win
     
  4. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #4
    Arctic ice melting at 'amazing' speed, scientists find

    Review news article about recent developments regarding arctic sea ice:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19508906

    Arctic ice melting at 'amazing' speed, scientists find

    [​IMG]


    Disturbing.
     
  5. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #5
    Man induced climate change is simply the latest demonstration of our arrogance.

    From a scientific community that cannot predict the weather, we get faked data (now seemingly ignored) to support research grants to fund entire institutions and political agendas to control the actions of the population.

    Man induced climate change will go down in history as one of the most successful scams ever.
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #6
    That assertion is in need of a source.
     
  7. dukebound85, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012

    dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #7
    For one that is not in the field you sure speak with authority. Fake data? Care to provide a source as well as the pervasiveness as you imply?

    Also, you should note that climate is not weather. Believe it or not, predicting climate change is a completely different set of dynamics and variables than predicting weather and is quite doable in regards to general trends. Case in point? I can tell you with ABSOLUTE certainty that December is colder than July here in the NH. However I can not tell you the weather for any particular day in December. Just a simple simple example of that notion.

    The debate is what the impacts and feedbacks are that affect the magnitudes, not whether it is occurring or not

    An interesting video on the basic dynamics




    However, for a debate on this topic, here is an interesting read:

    http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/XchangeGray_FtCollinsFeb08.pdf

    Bill Gray's views are of his own in my department and the field in general. While he is well known for his work in tropical meteorology, his science on climate change just isn't of the necessary caliber it should be.


    Here is a comic on the debate that makes light of the situation and SHOULD just get you to think about that assertion YOU have made after being fed this notion from GOP outlets about "funding"
    [​IMG]
     
  8. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #8
    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts"


    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" -- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20120909/OPINION18/309090026/Too-many-people-make-up-facts-win-arguments?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Opinion|p

    Show me the facts.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #9
    As a non-scientists, most of this goes over my head. But I did appreciate this part of Gray's rebuttal ...

    Do the math. Millions / thousands = thousands.

    That's a pretty underwhelming payoff if that's all these "scientists, environmentalists, politicians, and media" are after.

    That motivation he attributes to Climate Change advocates is then contradicted by this next paragraph ...

    I guess he figures that with the collapse of the world's economy, these Climate Change "thousandaires" will be the new elite.

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  10. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #10
    citizenzen, I would like to pm you in regards to other info you may find interesting (as I know we have discussed this more than once here at MR), yet maybe a little off topic to the thread.
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    That is very considerate of you.

    Perhaps you could just provide a quick post and link. I'm sure others will be interested as well, and it can't be any more off topic than these threads normally get.
     
  12. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #12
    My original videos I was going to link to are restricted to site access. However, here is a similar presentation for you and others inclined on both sides of the issue

    For those interested and would like to hear on the topic in a more detailed manner (in addition to the previous video I posted). These are just some of the presentations out there

    Denial video via Dr. Gray (focus on oceans)
     
  13. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    Dec 11, 2010
    #13
    Whether you agree with climate change or not, you have to admit we have trashed the environment, right? Our world is falling apart. As someone who spends much of my free time on the water, I've seen it first hand, and it isn't hard to see...
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    Just your opinion, right? Now what do you base it on?

    Since the industrial age, mankind has been pumping millions of pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere and temperatures have done nothing but go up. Coincidence or not? This requires research, not sticking one's head in the sand as conservatives are compelled to do.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #15
    Nah. At best, its second to religion.
     
  16. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #16
    Interesting how you think it is arrogant to claim that man is causing climate change, but don't seem to think it is arrogant to boast that man is not. On what basis do you feel this way? On what basis would you think 7 BILLION people on the planet could not be having an effect. Only someone who is truly arrogant would think that all these additional humans would have no additional effects.
     
  17. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    Mar 10, 2005
    #17
    Holy ****, I usually just read the forums for news and interesting tidbits happening in the world, but these posts defy legitimate understanding! Every single one seems rooted in ignorance, arrogance, and plain old normal unintelligent ideas. Someone is pulling a prank, right? Referring back to a plethora of previous posts about a range of topics, can a broad misunderstanding worldview such as this truly exist?
     
  18. vega07 macrumors 65816

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    #18
    It's because he's a far right conservative who doesn't think. He just eats up whatever the right and Fox News says.
     
  19. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #19
    Got to hate on religion? Where is the tolerance, and who cares if religion ends up being a hoax if it makes someone feel better? And what if it isn't?

    But to the topics point. This one is hard as there is data to support both theories. Also it has become big business, so how do we trust the data we see.
     
  20. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Illinois
    #20
    Actually, unless you believe in what I believe in, you're going to hell. Oh, because I have never told anyone what the "Truth" is because I'm a selfish bastard and God was foolish to trust me with her secrets, I'll be the ONLY one in heaven.
     
  21. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #21
    Youy should expect hate on religion as long as religion is used to hate.
     
  22. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #22
    What if it's a hoax and makes some people feel better and other people kill untold millions for thousands of years In the name of that hoax? U might have tolerance for that. I do not.
     
  23. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #23
    I thought we are talking about present times. Yes history has had some gruesome acts in the name of religion. There are some, but very few religions that want to "kill untold millions" these days. Most teach peace, love, and hope. And condone killing. But if you don't like the teaching of peace, love, and hope than I guess that is your thing.
     
  24. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #24
    From what I've always understood ...... The increase in global temperature will disrupt or completely change our jet streams. Once that happens, weather as we know it can go completely out of wack. Sort of like what went on in the movie "day after tommorrow".

    Besides that. Even a slight rise of the global temperature index can cause sensitive ecosystems to change or breakdown.
     
  25. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    Feb 9, 2010
    #25
    Yeah cause that's exactly what I said. I hate peace and love. :rolleyes:
     

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