Clinton far better for economy than Trump: Economists

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Peace, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #1
  2. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I prefer the article subtitle

    Economists think Hillary Clinton in the White House would be far better for U.S. businesses than Donald Trump.
     
  3. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #3
    I'm sure a lot of small businesses agree. Especially the several hundred Trump screwed over.
     
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Do workers feel they are part of the economy anymore? Especially with more productivity yet workers seeing less for it, despite higher corporate profits... something doesn't seem right. Especially the workers who had to train their own foreign replacements, is this the same economy? What has each candidate said on economic issues, perhaps that is the real question to ask since how one feels doesn't always accurately reflect what is going on?
     
  5. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #5
    As an aside - your sig reminds me of the Woody Allen line in Annie Hall, "You know, we had a saying, uh but, "Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach, teach gym." And uh, of course, those who couldn't do anything, I think, were assigned to our school."
     
  6. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #6
    As an aside to your aside, your post reminds me of another line from that film, here slightly adapted:

    "A guy walks into a psychiatrist's office and says, 'hey doc, our presidential candidate is crazy! He thinks he's a chicken.' Then the doc says, 'why don't you turn him in?' Then the guy says, 'I would but we need the eggs.' I guess that's how I feel about politicians. They're totally crazy, irrational, and absurd, but we keep going through it because we need the eggs."

    And now, back to the economy, already in progress...
     
  7. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #7
    I doubt that Hillary would push for any different monetary policy than we now have, courtesy Bernanke/Yellen. ZIRP and QE have been disastrous. But, those benefit the Banksters (Goldman Sucks et al) and they are among her major donors. Odds are that Trump would be more cooperative with the relatively small businesses than she would, insofar as over-regulation. Plus, his taxation ideas would benefit the smaller businesses.
     
  8. Naaaaak macrumors 6502

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    #8
    The same economists who call for 0% or negative interest rates in perpetuity.
    The same economists who treat Keynesian as religion.
    The same economists who praise the "Obama recovery" -- the weakest "recovery" on record as unicorns and sparkles.

    Don't trust them.

    This economy never truly recovered. A recovery that requires perpetual stimulus, constant debt spending and "quantitative easing", and unending artificially low (or negative) interest rates is not a true recovery. High asset prices are the only thing that "recovered" -- good luck to people who can purchase them without taking out massive loans, because real wages certainly did not recover for most.

    No matter who the next President is, we're all going to suffer from the last 8 years of misguided economic policy (and the 8 years before that that built the first housing bubble). The only thing that matters is that we don't follow those policies ever again and right the ship, as hard as that is going to be. That means not listening to the very economists who have been "guiding" current policy. No bailouts, no bail-ins, and no more raping savers and producers at every turn. Policies that encourage relentless spending and borrowing have to end. No private enterprise is too big to fail. Bring back Glass-Steagall. Actually regulate industry. Uncorrupt capitalism.
     
  9. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #9
    The same Trump who is indebted to GS and the Chinese? Oh no - I'm sure he wouldn't do anything in his power as POTUS to ensure his BRAND is a YUUUGE success.

    p.s. Trump has taken advantage of enough small business. Shut him down.
     
  10. MacAndMic macrumors 6502

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    #10
    That article is so fact filled that I am changing my mind and voting Hillary. The world is so awesome on this side, I don't need to learn or research anything ever again, the media will tell me everything I need to know.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    So how exactly does outsourcing US jobs to China and Mexico help the US economy?
     
  12. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #12
    So, remind me how Bernanke/Yellen has been "disastrous"?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    I think he stated it fairly clearly in his post, we bought the recovery, we didn't earn it. The tremendous jump in US debt cannot even be accounted for truly because they have been flooding the market with QE since the recovery started. Turn off the taps and put interest rates back where they belong and watch how fast the economy slumps over.
     
  14. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #14
    Which types of small businesses are being over-regulated? How?

    Which taxation ideas would benefit small businesses?
     
  15. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #15
    I'm genuinely interested in what you would propose going forward as well as what you feel could have been done differently over the last 8 years.

    I'm always open to a well argued position that is different to mine. But given the lack of support Obama has been given by congress, it seems that he has actually done a remarkable job of digging the US out of its worst financial crisis ever.
     
  16. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    Because we added $10T to get there and labor participation is still dropping. [​IMG]
     
  17. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Naaaaak macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Everything I mentioned in my post. No bailouts. No bail-ins. No artificially low interest rates. No adding trillions to the national debt and pretending we made progress. End the Fed. Bring back Glass-Stegal. Actually have regulators do their jobs. If we have a recession, keep it short and harsh, not drawn out leading to another lost decade because all they want to do is push mindless consumerism and credit.

    Push saving. People without money or people deep in debt have no options. They act like indefinite borrowing is the only way to operate. You cannot rebuild or recover without savings to draw from.

    Actually reporting stats correctly would be a good start, too. We can start with an unemployment rate that includes underemployment and other things it once did, in addition to including people who are still unemployed even though they've exhausted their unemployment payments. Figures that mean something and are representative of reality instead of these "look how great we are!" carefully-massaged numbers like most government figures from the last 20 years.


    Congress has been completely complicit in helping screw things up with every debt increase and every kick-the-can measure. They approved all stimulus and bailouts, too. Economically, both parties don't care about sustainability – all of them want to get theirs, get out, and pass the problem to someone in the future.
     
  19. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #19
    The alternative to Obama's plan was austerity, which hasn't worked out to well in the UK. Yes this recovery is weak, but then again had the deficit-cutting-fetishists of the GOP been in power, it would have been a lot worse... perhaps even reaching a tipping point.

    I think 'don't trust the old economic advice in light of new data' would be better advice.

    Agreed, but to me the solution is redistributing wealth.

    Some of this makes sense to me, but without the government putting its thumb on the scales balancing the interests between rich and poor, capitalism will always be corrupt. In any case, I'd add to your list 'prosecuting those who commit financial fraud to the hilt, treating their crimes as severe as those who use violence to rob others'.
     
  20. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #20
    You have a lot to learn about economics.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...talism-that-causes-poverty-its-the-lack-of-it

    http://www.economist.com/news/leade...ut-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim
     
  21. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #21
    Economists have a lot to learn about actual human behaviour, and about evidence-based reasoning.

    For instance, that abject poverty has declined over the past few decades does not mean that free-market capitalism is the uniquely best way of reducing poverty, nor that the trend of poverty reduction will continue. Free-market capitalism has led to increased wealth inequality, alienation and disenfranchisement in many countries in the West. Frankly, right now seems to me to be very much like the 1930's, with a prolonged economic crisis triggered nationalism and then world war. Time will tell. Also, unconstrained capitalism might very well be unsustainable in terms of its ecological impact, and the economy won't matter if the biosphere collapses.

    I am not saying that there should be some sort of Stalinist central planning of the economy, just that government needs to step in when free-market capitalism fails, and clearly it is failing in the UK, Europe and Japan. Believing that free-market capitalism will produce the best world is like believing that evolution will guarantee survival.
     
  22. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Socialism has failed in every place it has been tried. Look at Venezuela lately.

    The western countries you mentioned that are failing are no longer capitalistic as they all have central banks dictating the cost of money which is currently set to zero. ZIRP favors the debtors and not the savers which directly helps governments, banks, the 1% and punishes the middle class and lower classes.

    Again, you have a lot to learn about economics. I was once like you but I did my research and now see how capitalism has been perverted by the banks to favor the ruling class.

    Tell me what these charts mean to you.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #23
    The conservatives favorite new statistic now that the unemployment rate isn't in their favor. The graph looks so damning.

    Of course, if you look at the underlying factors to this drop in the LFPR, the single biggest factor is the retirement of baby boomers. There's a reason we have historically looked at unemployment and not LFPR as a sign of economic strength. Because LFPR doesn't have a direct relationship with the strength of the economy.
     
  24. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #24
    And you would be wrong. Baby Boomers are the only ones getting jobs in this economy. It is the young population that is dropping out of the work force.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...re-not-the-labor-exodus-problem/#7d81efffcb61


    [​IMG]
     
  25. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #25
    Not a great idea to rely on an opinion piece for evidence.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/declining-labor-participation-rates/
    With cites from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Congressional Budget Office and Federal Reserve Board.
     

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