College students hate wealth redistribution, refuse to share 'A' grades

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by thermodynamic, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #1
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/1...-distribution-are-asked-to-support-grade.html

    Now read what Fox won't bother to talk about, even Breitbart spits on that article with what's been going on for more than a decade (H1B was originally useful during Y2K but has been grossly misused since)...:

    http://www.computerworld.com/articl...es-at-disney-over-use-of-foreign-workers.html
    (note that Disney had also jacked up ticket prices and a month later reported big profits - well, duh... how much corporate welfare should they continue to get from government?)

    http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134488/index.htm
    (source code wealth redistribution went back long before this article, but Microsoft even encouraged piracy!!)

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ollege-grads-train-h-1b-foreign-replacements/

    http://www.computerworld.com/articl...rs-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/4/1/1198459/-H-1B-Guest-Worker-Fraud-and-the-Lacking-Skills-Scam
    (just read the news, if all these news tellers are right then anyone saying there aren't qualified people or how unions are scaring them away is pure manure...)

    http://www.cringely.com/2015/06/15/the-h-1b-visa-program-is-a-scam/

    Oh, also look up how we have more unemployed IT workers than H1Bs and then wonder how all these claims of unqualified workers can still be claimed?

    On the plus side that has bipartisan support:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-for-H-1B-visa-fraud/articleshow/49778314.cms
     
  2. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #2
    You lost me somewhere between the five-year old Fox article Microsoft encouraging piracy.
     
  3. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #3
    Yeah, I'm trying to figure this one out, too.
     
  4. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #4
    Basically, the article is an experiment in the failures of pure socialism regarding rewarding hard work.

    What it fails to address is the fact that now more than ever the rich are exponentially more wealthy than they have actually worked for.

    There are fields such as medicine where more left leaning policies could possibly hurt overall performance, but by and large we still stand to benefit from some leveling of the playing field.
     
  5. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #5
    I honestly think that many of these ultra wealthy elites buy into the delusion that they work harder than those who scrape by on multiple jobs; They see those parents spending 60+ hours a week doing menial labor to support their kids as "lazy".
     
  6. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #7
    There's obviously a balance. On one hand, skilled labor is skilled labor. On the other, hard work (40 hr a week, no more) should absolutely earn you a decent living in this country. Currently, society rewards skilled labor handsomely (well, except some academic and education based work, but that's another story).

    In general, I think I don't believe it's the white collar workers that are overpaid. I feel like the super rich are just excessively wealthy at this point.
     
  7. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #8
    It's funny how many people view even this as an affront to American values. I don't even think it has to be "hard work". I think anybody working 40 hours a week doing damn near anything deserves at least their own place to live, food to eat, and the basics in life.
     
  8. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #9
    There's definitely a happy medium. There is a world where doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and other college educated jobs make the income they deserve while those without such luxuries can still "pursue happiness"
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #10
    I have to agree with this. People turn debates over executive salaries into a "how hard someone works" arguments. The fact of the matter is that execs with 6, 7, 8 figure salaries are hired based on their experience and ability to manage the companies. It's not like a CEO sits in their office on a throne and does nothing. They are responsible for the success of their company and appeasement of the shareholders. If they run the company well, everyone is happy. If they run it into the ground- not only is his/her job at stake, but so are the employees, not to mention the investors money and support of the customers.

    Take a company like Apple (a few years ago). Steve Jobs was earning $1 a year salary and their retail employees were still getting paid minimum wage or just above. Even if he had a 10,000,000/yr salary- divide that by the roughly 30,000 retail employees- we're still only talking another $333/year increase in salary. (sure this is a little overly simplified but hopefully you get my point)

    Right now McDonald's CEO Steve Esterbrook makes $1.1m. Let's pretend he ends up making $10,000,000 with bonuses and such. McDonald's has 420,000 employees. Le's say 400,000 of them make <$15/hr. If Mr. Esterbook gave up his salary amongst his low paid staff, they'd each get an extra $25/year.

    Meanwhile, if you inherit $10,000,000, invest it earning 3%/year, you're making $300,000. You don't need to work at all to live a very comfortable lifestyle- just have a decent investment advisor. Let's say you inherit $100 million, now you're earning $3 million a year. It's not surprising the rich are getting richer.

    Salaries as far as I know follow the laws of economics. Supply and demand. Companies will pay as little as reasonably possible. Many wealthy companies can probably afford to pay their minimum wage staff more, but they don't have to. If they are forced into a higher minimum wage, I can only expect they will raise the cost of their goods/services, cut jobs, outsource, etc - so it's all relative.

    Obviously everyone should be able to make a decent living to support themselves and their families. I don't think CEO salaries is really a primary factor in minimum wage employees not being paid enough. I'm not sure what the incentive is for companies to pay their employees more. It's a complicated issue when you factor in the nature of economics. Higher cost to deliver the goods/services = higher cost to purchase them. So is a $15 min wage really going to give you 2x as much money at the end of the day?

    I'm not saying we should promote people living in poverty, I just don't know what the answer is in the context of America's current political system.
     
  10. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Then we need to stop bitching about the poor being poor because they just don't work hard enough or haven't tried hard enough. America has created an economy sustained by low wages and government support, while at the same time decrying government support. However, if you take that government support away, the wages probably wouldn't rise anyway. So, let's place the blame where it actually is: business just doesn't pay...unless you're an upper executive, in which case you are far overpaid in most cases.

    Of course there would be slightly higher prices. But, let me ask you, would you agree to a 10% increase in living expenses if you got a 50% increase in your income?

    It's been shown many times that for Wal-Mart alone to raise wages by 50%, they would need to raise prices by only a couple of percent without negatively impacting profits. Even a $1000 TV might only get a $20 increase. Not likely enough to substantially affect competition.

    Business has no incentive to raise wages because the government supports their business model. They don't pay, so the government fills in, while they take home the cash. That's American Capitalism.

    As for having 2x as much money at the end of the day... If you are making $7.50 an hour, or $60 a day, you're probably spending $60 a day, so you have nothing left. If your wage rises to $15.00 and you now make $120 a day, but your spending rises to $80 a day (a 33% increase), you have $40 left over. I'd say you're doing much better. A while back, I went through several of America's largest employers, and compared their revenues, profits, and the number of employees, and an average salary for people in those positions. For mot large employers in the US, comprising some 15 million or more people, the total price increases involved came to like 4% to raise wages by 50%, and that included increased employer taxes.

    The last part answers your question. In America's current political system, you will probably never get anything done to fix it. Kind of like with the gun thing...we went too far, and can't really go back. Because somehow, it's believed that if you give even more money and tax breaks to already very wealthy folks, that everything will soon be fixed. It hasn't worked in 30 years, and it won't work in the future. The problem is that we gave up the golden goose, and getting it back is going to be a real problem. You've created this environment where some people believe they deserve $30 million a year to run a company or throw a football or act in a movie. We've created an environment where if you aren't increasing profits by millions or billions a year, it's seen as a failure. It's hard as hell to roll that back into reasonable thinking.

    Much of America can easily pay its workers more. They just don't. There's no real reason other than they just won't want to. And it snowballs into further economic problems because so many people just don't make enough to support themselves. You can train everyone, teach everyone skills, and give everyone a doctorate-level education. But there will never be only high-skilled and high-education jobs available. If you want a truly successful economy, your low-level people, who will always be a large fraction of your population, need to make enough money to support themselves and put money back into the economy. Your other option is either government support of those people, or civil war.
     
  11. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #12
    Unless you're reading this blog from a solid gold computer on a yacht by your own private island, you should consider the socialist leveling of the playing field. That's how rich the 1% are. I'm all for robin hood economics. However my middle class situation would probably keep me from benefiting from any of these proposed programs.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #13
    Begin with a logical fallacy and see how many Right-wing dopes run with it.
     
  13. Huntn, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    Grades and wealth distribution are too different things, not related in any meaningful way. My guess is a conservative maybe Ben Stein (?), would try to link these two things or is he debunking them? :)

    Sure you should be rewarded for how competent and important you are to society, but the philosophical discussion is about how much should you be rewarded and for what attributes?

    And noted that the main link that supports this thread's premise is 5 years old.
     
  14. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #15
    One works hard for money, one works hard for grades. I think its an apt comparison.
     
  15. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #16
    Speaking of leveling the paying field, I suppose you'll be first in line to tell athletes they make too much money. And writers. And singers. And actors.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    As I said, your reimbursement for your hard work is a separate from how much you should receive. Yes, as a highly valued member of society by all means, you should be at the top end of the pay scale. The debate is what should the pay scale be. :D
     
  17. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #18
    The trouble is that people are never satisfied. I have no problem with providing roofs over heads, decent un-processed food, utilities. But it's never enough and there are so many cheats.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016 ---
    If they didn't cheat to make their money, what business is it of yours how much they make?
     
  18. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #19
    Athletes make up such a small percentage of the "extremely wealthy", I'm not all too concerned about them. Besides, you're talking about people making millions, whereas the extremely wealthy often make billions.
     
  19. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #20
    Fair is fair. If athletes can be allowed to make enormous salaries for doing what is essentially a nonsensical task that materially benefits nobody, stock speculators can make billions for doing likewise.
     
  20. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #21
    The amount of money cheated by your average welfare queen (and in total amongst all of them) likely pales in comparison to what your typical Wall Street or corporate behemoth cheat is pulling down. Funny that you rarely ever see folks pointing the finger at them.

    If they're giving themselves a raise while laying off others, it may not be "my business", but I'll have plenty to say about it. If they're running a drug company and raising prices to astronomical levels in order to enrich themselves at their customers' expense, it may not be "my business", but I'll have plenty to say about it.
     
  21. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #22
    Keep your eye on the prize, Poindexter.

    [​IMG]

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1824532/Our Economy.gif
     
  22. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #23
    Gosh! Did you miss my post earlier where I said people who earn their money honestly deserve to keep it? If not, that's what I think.

    Those who cheat should have it taken away as part of the judgment against them.

    Say what you want to make your case. Just keep in mind that there are almost always two sides to any controversy. Nobody sees himself as a villain.
     
  23. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #24
    The bold is specifically untrue. If no one saw any benefit of sport, no one would do it.

    Honestly, I'm humoring you here, but your scope is so small it's essentially irrelevant.
     
  24. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Yeah, I'm sure Dick Cheney thought he was real stand-up guy doing good for the world.

    Sure, there are always two sides, but there are plenty of both rich and poor who are out to take whatever they can from you, no two sides about it. And one of them has far more ability to do so, and in case you're confused, it's not the poor.

    In the end, I think we can all agree that our economy is not going anywhere as long as the a huge portion of the people are making under $10 an hour, no matter their skill level.
     

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