Computer makers sued over hard-drive size claims

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MacBytes, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. MacBytes macrumors bot

    Jul 5, 2003
  2. corradokid macrumors newbie

    Sep 18, 2003
    20 miles north of Apple HQ

    These people are just realizing this now? Are they a bunch of newbies who have failed to read the small print which tells them of this size discrepancy?:rolleyes:
  3. Bob Knob macrumors 6502

    Mar 20, 2003
    I could have sworn that this was tried a few years ago, but I did a quick search and didn't find anything. Does anyone else remember something like this?
  4. iJon macrumors 604


    Feb 7, 2002
    well, apple will give them a free ipod or something and hop out of this. or they will fight it with this.


    Attached Files:

  5. TwitchOSX macrumors 6502

    May 2, 2002
    Southern Oregon
    What a bunch of friggen idiots. Suppose Apple or anybody else says you get an 80gig HD in your computer. Just because you get the computer PRE INSTALLED AND INITIALIZED with the OS and other packaged crap doesnt mean you arent getting an 80gb HD. And even if you bought a brand new blank non-initialized 80gb HD, you still dont get a full 80gb. Thats how it works. Because 1k is like 1024 bytes and so on and so forth. Somebody needs to tell these morons that you get an 80gb HD but it has **** on it.. so it wont hold all that other crap. What a bunch of **** heads.
  6. gerardrj macrumors regular

    May 2, 2002
    no basis

    First, the suits are for the most part agains the wrong companies. With the exception of IBM, I don't think any of those computer manufacturers makes their own drives, they purchase drives from vendors. Thos vendors decide how to specify the capacity, and it's generally accepted in the HD inustry that they no longer use base 2 math when talking about size.

    Second, Apple includes, and I'd guess that most other computer manufacturers do also, a disclaimer on their specification pages and in marketing literature along the lines of "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less". This is usually noted as a footnote wherever they mention hard disk capacity.

    The suits seem to me like they'll be tossed out after a response has been filed by the companies. This is no-where near the magnitude of the 20" monitor that's only got 16" of viewable area, THAT deserved a suit.
  7. applemacdude macrumors 68040


    Mar 26, 2001
    Over The Rainbow
    We had this issue since teh hard drive was intorduced. Why now? why bitch about it now? retards really read the not so fine print
  8. Bear macrumors G3

    Jul 23, 2002
    Sol III - Terra
    Of course if you look at the Devices and Volumes tab in the Apple System Profiler you will see that disk and volume size information is listed in both formats as shown in the screen clipping:
  9. pgwalsh macrumors 68000


    Jun 21, 2002
    New Zealand
  10. iJon macrumors 604


    Feb 7, 2002
    welcome to america, haha.

  11. aarond12 macrumors 65816


    May 20, 2002
    Dallas, TX USA
    Not again...

    This issue has been brought up in court so many times I can't even count. Even when I was doing PC phone tech support back in 1992 (shudder...) we saw the news that PC manufacturers were being sued for this.

    A while ago, someone was talking about hard drive manufacturers going to "giblibytes"... anyone remember that? Giblibytes is supposed to be the "correct" conversion of bytes-to-gigabytes.

    How does this work? Instead of dividing the number of bytes by 1,000,000 as they do now, they divide the number of bytes by 1,048,576 which represents gigabytes more accurately.

    Therefore a 250GB byte hard drive is really a 238.42GibliByte hard drive.
  12. janey macrumors 603


    Dec 20, 2002
    sunny los angeles
    this is nuts. people cant read. its right there, and it's common friggin sense and they still dont get it..."misleading" riiiight...
    ill gotten profits...LIKE WHAT?!
    ATTORNEYS FEES-i should have known. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
  13. MattG macrumors 68040


    May 27, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    Apple among other computer companies getting sued for 'false' hard drive specs

    Computer Makers Sued Over Hard-Drive Size Claims
    Thu September 18, 2003 05:00 PM ET

    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A group of computer owners has filed a lawsuit against some of the world's biggest makers of personal computers, claiming that their advertising deceptively overstates the true capacity of their hard drives.
    The lawsuit, which seeks class action status, was filed earlier this week in Los Angeles Superior Court against Apple Computer Inc. AAPL.O , Dell Inc. DELL.O , Gateway Inc. GTW.N , Hewlett-Packard Co. HPQ.N , IBM IBM.N , Sharp Corp. 6753.T , Sony Corp. 6758.T and Toshiba Corp. 6502.T

    The lawsuit brought by Los Angeles residents Lanchau Dan, Adam Selkowitz, Tim Swan and John Zahabian centers around the way that computer hard drives are described by manufacturers.

    Representatives of the eight defendants were not immediately available to comment.

    According to the lawsuit, computer hard drive capacities are described in promotional material in decimal notation, but the computer reads and writes data to the drives in a binary system.

    The result is that a hard drive described as being 20 gigabytes would actually have only 18.6 gigabytes of readable capacity, the lawsuit said.

    The plaintiffs said this difference in convention is deceptive and leaves buyers with less storage than they thought they were getting when they purchased their computers.

    For example, when a consumer buys what he thinks is a 150 gigabyte hard drive, the plaintiffs said, he actually gets only 140 gigabytes of storage space. That missing 10 gigabytes, they claim, could store an extra 2,000 digitized songs or 20,000 pictures.

    The lawsuit asks for an injunction against the purportedly unfair marketing practices, an order requiring the defendants to disclose their practices to the public, restitution, disgorgement of ill-gotten profits and attorneys' fees.
  14. medea macrumors 68030


    Aug 4, 2002
    Madison, Wi
    it's imossible to state a true set hd size, they all vary independently so it would be pretty hard to market that :rolleyes:
    instead of everyone suing everyone else for the stupidist things we should all try and inform ourselves a little better.
  15. TEG macrumors 604


    Jan 21, 2002
    Langley, Washington
    Its true that no two hard drives have the same capacity. But, must they give the size where 1GB = 1000 MB instead of the true 1GB = 1024MB. Its the way it should be, or place an astrisk next to the size number and state somewhere that its an estmated size. Also, its the exact opposite when you talk RAM size. The actual size is larger then the advertized size.

  16. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    They won't win. A 750cc motorcycle engine is often only 742cc or whatever. It is perfectly acceptable for companies to round up a number as long as it is not grossly misleading, in this case it is not.
  17. LimeLite macrumors 6502a


    Mar 20, 2003
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Well, also, in essence they are not lying. But this is an issue that kind of sucks, though I don't think the blame should be placed on the computer manufacturers. If anyone is to blame, it's the hard drive manufacturers, because that's where the discrepancy begins.
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    This was brought up at another forum I visit and some one brought up an interesting point. The HDD manufacturers are correct, it's the computers/software thats wrong. Mega is a prefix meaning thousand so a megabyte is literally 1000 bytes. But when it comes to software/computers one megabyte is 1024 bytes which is incorrect/a misnomer.

  19. Sol macrumors 68000


    Jan 14, 2003
    Throw them out of the courts

    An 80 GB drive will really have 80 GB if it stays un-formatted so an argument could be made that manufacturers are indeed telling the truth on the packaging.
  20. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Feb 24, 2001
    I'm looking at a G5 pamphlet I picked up at CompUSA the other day. On the spec sheet it says "80GB Serial ATA" with a superscript '5' next to it. If you look up the note inside for number 5 it says "5: 1GB=1 billion bytes, actual formatted capacity less" Thus Apple is telling you right up front that the actual capacity is less. Always read the fine print before suing someone.
  21. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002

    Didn't similar people sue computer companies and display manufacturers on display size.

    ...satisfy the details of the lawsuit.

    So if the say...
    ...that it would satisfy any similar lawsuit.

    Who are they gonna sue next, the builders of the Hoover Dam?

    For improperly labeling how much water it'll hold, since the "exact" capacity is constantly in flux. As is the "current" amount.
  22. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

    Jun 23, 2003
    St Augustine, FL
    I swear, people are just idiots. Isn't it common knowledge that it is not going to be an *exact* number? By next they will sue for saying the 4 advertised hours of battery life only gets 3.7 hours.
  23. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Feb 24, 2001
    I'm going to sue colleges over the use of E=MC2. It's really confusing because E doesn't mean the letter 'e' but it stands for some sort of energy or something.

    They're trying to trick me!
  24. baby duck monge macrumors 68000

    baby duck monge

    Feb 16, 2003
    Memphis, TN
    really you would do better by suing over the term "c," since i think some scientists manages to slow down some photons. the speed of light may actually vary in those circumstances, so the formula is faulty.
  25. Vlade macrumors 6502a


    Feb 2, 2003
    Meadville, PA
    Good, I doubt they will win but maybe it will convince the HD makers to use 1024 instead of 1000, or not screw us out of a few gigs for "formatting"

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