Congressional Intelligence - Comey .... Senate Theater?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rhonindk, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Rhonindk, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017

    Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #1
    Watching the Senate hearing with the Intelligence Chiefs. What theater! It quickly devolved into political grandstanding and felt more like a "Well I want ..." at least from some of the Senators.

    Watching the MSM headlines and the word "Dodge" looks to have priority for the Democratic leaning sites.

    Good take: http://syvnews.com/news/national/go...cle_54b64387-89ce-56a6-bd62-8cae2e97f454.html

    Feed: http://www.npr.org/2017/06/07/53185...ivate-conversations-with-trump-in-open-hearin

    Coats was pretty good - his responses were as expected for a public venue. So was Rogers. Their testimony was classic. No pressure however they don't discuss Presidential conversations in public. Wonder if that was a misdirection / headline play on words.
    McCabe was his usual legal self ... did like the word play.

    Senator Warner was up to the usual - pushy but decent.
    Heinrich on the other hand ...
    Then there was ... California Democratic Sen. Kamala Harris - she was a good example of how not to ask questions. Glad she was admonished on her behavior.

    Disappointed it devolved into grandstanding and glad the folks giving testimony finally were allowed to answer questions instead of the constant interruptions. Felt more like a playground grandstand session by the asking Senators.

    More to come....
     
  2. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    totally cool
    #2
    Former FBI Director James Comey will testify Thursday that President Donald Trump asked him to back off the probe into former national security advisor Michael Flynn, according to an opening statement posted by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    "He then said, 'I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go,'" Comey will say of an Oval Office meeting in February, confirming an account first reported in The New York Times.

    Comey will say that he interpreted the president's comment as a request that the FBI "drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December." Comey will testify, "I did not say I would 'let this go.'"


    However, the former FBI chief "did not understand the president to be talking about the broader investigation into Russia or possible links to his campaign."

    cnbc


    Full testimony
     
  3. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #3
    Reading through the preview of the Comey testimony. What I find intriguing relates to two items;
    1. Not seeing any kind of "smoking gun" like the Democrats are looking for
    2. These are personal notes of James Comey. Can they be considered first hand accurate evidence or are they hearsay and are just indicative.

    Not seeing any bombshells.
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #4
    Did Trump want loyalty like a mob boss wants loyalty or loyalty for the law.
     
  5. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    totally cool
    #5
    is "hope" considered "obstruction"?
     
  6. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #6
    Loyalty like to a CEO staffer so he can accomplish his agenda? If he is viewing the US as a business ....
     
  7. AsherN macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    #7
    Notes of LEOs are considered first hand accounts.
     
  8. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #8
    In regards to Russia, perhaps not. But you can't read that and not draw conclusions about obstruction.
     
  9. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    totally cool
    #9
    Legal overview[edit]
    Generally, obstruction charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, other than a suspect, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent can be used to allow any person questioned by police merely to deny answering questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so. (In such a case, the investigators may subpoena the witness to give testimony under oath in court, though the witness may then exercise their rights, for example in the Fifth Amendment, if they believe their answer may serve to incriminate themselves.) If the person willfully and knowingly tried to protect a suspect (such as by providing a false alibi) or to hide from investigation of their own activities (such as to hide their involvement in another crime), this may leave them liable to prosecution. Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters, destroys, or conceals physical evidence.[1] Obstruction charges may also be laid in unique situations such as refusal to aid a police officer, escape through voluntary action of an officer and refusing to assist prison officers in arresting escaped convicts.

    Obstruction can include crimes committed by judges, prosecutors, attorneys general, and elected officials in general. It is misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance in the conduct of the office. Most commonly it is prosecuted as a crime for perjury by a non governmental official primarily because of prosecutorial discretion.

    Notable examples[edit]
    • Richard Nixon was being investigated for obstruction of justice for his alleged role in the cover-up of the break-in at the Watergate hotel during his re-election campaign in 1972. Although it is unknown whether Nixon had foreknowledge of his re-election committee's "dirty tricks" campaign against Democratic presidential candidates that led to the break-in, he was aware of it after the fact and paid money to keep the participants quiet.
    • Former Vice-Presidential adviser I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice in March 2007 for his role in the investigation of a leak to reporters that named a CIA agent, Valerie Plame. His prison sentence was commuted by President George W. Bush in July 2007, so that Libby was no longer required to serve a two and a half year prison sentence, but was still required to pay a $250,000 fine, be recorded as a convicted felon, obey probation terms, and be disbarred.
    • Conrad Black was convicted of obstruction of justice in July 2007[2] for removing 13 boxes containing financial records from his office in Toronto after they had been sealed by a court order, returning the boxes a few days later.
    • Barry Bonds was convicted of obstruction of justice on April 13, 2011 for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal.[3] The conviction was later overturned by an appellate court.[4]
    • In United States v. Binion, malingering (feigning illness) during a competency evaluation was held to be obstruction of justice and led to an enhanced sentence.[5]
     
  10. tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Location:
    Somewhere in the Delta Quadrant
    #10
    No. Neither is "pressure", although the media and Democrats will try very hard to convince you otherwise.
     
  11. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #11
    Trump FIRING Comey could be the tipping point.
     
  12. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #12
    But they didn't really. Not on the question everyone cares about. (Did Trump ask about investigation or did he not?) Which is why at the very end, the leading Republican senator admonished them all saying they shouldn't come to a hearing not prepared to answer questions.

    The United States is not a business and he is not CEO. And he has a whole bunch of laws that need to be adhered to now, different from a corporation.
     
  13. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Location:
    Portsmouth, NH
    #13
    I tuned in just to as Harris was getting scolded by the chairman. It was very enjoyable. She is a total hack, I still think she's hot though. I'd love to be the meat in a Harris Palin sandwich.
     
  14. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #14
    Well at least that would be bipartisan. :D

    I agree she was a little too aggressive, but I will cut her some slack as she is new there and still figuring it out. I also blame the clock. I get they have to have time limits, but it's kind of a ridiculous situation where a question is asked and the person wants to give a long winded answer using up all your time.
     
  15. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #15
    As reference material but not as evidentiary?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 7, 2017 ---
    You can read into it as obstruction however I'm not seeing that specifically. Personally I don't see it as such. While watching the talking heads, you get yes, no, and maybe. :eek:
    --- Post Merged, Jun 7, 2017 ---
    Once again, you can read that into it. If you take into account most were assuming Comey would be out of a job at some point, this "reading in" loses substance.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 7, 2017 ---
    Even if the answers did not contain all of the looked for information, at least they were allowed to state such. Still they needed to be allowed to answer, even if it was sparse, to get us to that point.

    Part off the problem I am seeing is that so many expect DT's spouts to be spoken in a "Washington" manner. When they aren't ... OMG!!! He is a CEO. Well ex-CEO. He'll learn - maybe not a good thing though. For me actions speak louder. I'll wait till I pass judgement on his effectiveness.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 7, 2017 ---
    As long as the verbiage is limited to non-English sounds from them. ;)
    Need a mute button :D
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #16
    There will be no obstruction charges, liberals are dreaming.
     
  17. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #17
    (Sigh) Why do you keep making this a team sports thing? As I have told you before, it's not. There are lots of republicans that think the same thing about Trump. Why do you keep ignoring this?
     
  18. darksithpro, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017

    darksithpro macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    #18
    The thing that gets me about Comey is he's a Political appointee. There's no way Clinton, Bush, or Obama would appoint someone to such a high level if they didn't have some form of Political loyalty. This is why I don't think Trump should be charged with obstruction. Now if Comey wasn't politically appointed that would be another story IMO. If it's up to the President to appoint and fire the director of FBI then it would make sense that the incumbent president choose his, or her own that more align to their party.
     
  19. AsherN macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    #19
    Evidentiary
     

Share This Page