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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Mar 28, 2006.
Someone finally has the balls to say something. Well done.
They probably didn't enlist because they didn't want to. And since we have an all-voluneer military, none of us has to. You have to wonder how a guy can get into congress without realizing that fact.
Umm . . . I disagree with many things that my father believes in. Bush can believe in this war, it doesn't mean if children have to. I have no idea with Bush's girls believe the war or not. I just feel it is illogical to assume they do. Clay is just proving that most people in our government are morons.
And you can be sure no matter if they believe in the war he'll make sure they don't believe in going to this war.
Who does? I have a family friend who has been over there 3 times. There is talk that he might be going back soon. He is a huge supporter of Bush and the war in Iraq, but he always says that he wished he didn't have to personally go. Supporting the cause and physically wanting to go are two separate issues.
Bush is a chickenhawk because he stayed home from Vietnam himself, it's nothing to do with his kids. If he had ten kids who all served three tours in Iraq, it wouldn't change who he is.
It's only ok to send other people's kids to die for some reason.
Well, they may be other people's children but they are not kids. They are adults.
I think you missed my point.
Using a line from that movie made by the moron Michael Moore...interesting..
It's not a point that is original to either Moore (who is no moron, whatever you think of his politics) or the Congressman. Nice way to bring up Michael Moore as a way to discredit Mr. Clay through association. William Clay = Michael Moore, so he obviously must carry the same emotional reactions that a deluge of GOP propaganda has attached to Moore.
To the real point, it is worth noting again and again that this war is fought, almost exclusively, by the sons and daughters of people other than the ones making the decisions about the war. I don't hold it against the Bush twins that they don't enlist, but it is important that risks are not being shared equally by the nation's elite.
I probably did because your usage of terminology clouded the issue.
is it just me, or is it that the more the wheels start coming off the GOP train, the more conservatives develop tourette's symptoms and start blurting out things like "michael moore!" and "ted kennedy!"?
I totally did that on purpose. I'm evil like that, and I think I'm starting to get the hang of this rhetoric stuff. Oh, and to zim, yes. But it's tough to recognize because they've beaten that dead horse so many times it's lost all meaning. Whereas the attacks on Bush that used to seem like crazy fringe Michael Moore rhetoric are suddenly starting to ring true, like with the spying thing and the port deal. Chickenhawk is a good one because it's fitting based on how badly the war is going.
However, I don't believe in Sins Of The Father in some cases, and this would be one of those.
The daughters are a scarecrow -- a rhetorical move that gives the Representative permission to say something that, in this culture, he would otherwise not have permission to say.
It seems doubtless to me, given his Vietnam record, that George Bush would rather have other people's children fighting in Iraq than his own. And while you might respond "Who wouldn't?," the fact remains that for many Americans, joining the army and going to Iraq was the best of a set of alternatives. Not so for the Bush twins, who have opportunity behind every door ...
GO FDR, the last great President.
also, ChickenHawk makes me think of:
On topic: the last GREAT WAR America was involved in was WW2. It was the last time there was a definitive LINE drawn between enemies as well as having an "Us vs Them" mentality that is required for a courageous and even zealous soldier population.
OH and Bush is a deserter. So I doubt he can lead troops effectively. Even if he says he can.
Or to put it another way, "Rich man's war, poor man's fight."
According to their Wikipedia page, Jenna is teaching at a Washington, D.C. public school and Barbara is working with AIDS patients in Africa through a program sponsored by the Houston-based Baylor College of Medicine's International Pediatrics AIDS Initiative. It's too bad they aren't doing something more useful with their time.
Yes indeed, many if not most activities are more productive than fighting in a war. And your point, sir?
Speaking of Warner Bros. chickenhawk, did he ever manage to get one of the chickens? Or did he just talk tough and try to throw his not considerable weight around? Is this character where the expression came from?
I believe in the end of each episode Foghorn Leghorn was dragged off by the chickenhawk.
Couple of thoughts - why does enlisting have to be the only way to show support for a war. As a wholly unrelated example, I believe alternative fuels are the future - but i haven't gone back to school to study chemistry. Also, what does the failure of a president to serve in a war have to do with the decision to get militarily involved? Lincoln never served in the military, nor did Clinton. Besides, with an all-volunteer army as we now have (and as already posted), there is no connection between the POTUS and the girls.
At the same time, do I think a military background can make a person more effective in making determinations regarding the military? yes. do I think that having an intelligence background makes for more intel-effective leaders? yes. Do I think having a business background helps the POTUS make better economic decisions? yes. If only our leaders were perfect. Our lives could be great. If only unhappy opposition could rally people together. We'd still have a lot of the same problems.
Not to get off topic, but . . .
Why is Moore a moron? I can understand how you could disagree with his politics, but it seems most people feel the need to call him a moron in order to not sound "extreme", which is a really weak stance to take. I guess my question is: what specifically has he done that is more moronic than the average person in his place?
You will have to ask someone else. If you reread my quote you will find I don't think he is a moron, in fact, I have a lot of respect for mister moore's intelligence and his activities. This, of course, is a twenty page diversion for the topic at hand.