Conservative Wall Street Journal admonishes Trump, dire warning.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, May 17, 2017.

  1. PracticalMac, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Conservative Wall Street Journal admonishes Trump, dire warning.
    (may need subscription)

    Same day this article was publish the DOW plunged 370 points, S&P slid a huge 2.57%
    Dow Jones 20,609.28 -370.47 (-1.77%)
    Nasdaq 2,357.31 -43.36 (-1.81%)
    S&P 500 6,011.24 -158.63 (-2.57%)


    "Fear" index has a big drop into Fear side (66 to 47).
     
  2. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    #2
    Very interesting read.

    When I first started to encounter pro-Russia Europeans and North Americans online, I assumed they must be paid trolls. I've come to realize this is not (always) the case. While a war of aggression against Russia seems like a really bad idea, I still wonder why people hold Putin and Russia in so high regard.

    While demonizing the Russian people is counterproductive, pretending that the Russian leadership, and the corrupted oligarchy, are benevolent and our friends is sort of foolhardy. Well of course they could be our friends, if we just saw things their way.
     
  3. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    You know, attributing a slide on Wall Street to a particular story is like blaming a hurricane on somebody breaking wind. Trump's erratic behaviour probably doesn't help matters, but no economic upturn lasts forever, and the West has been ignoring the unsustainable inequality of wealth for too long. Poor peons don't make good consumers. No doubt this was a transitory fluctuation, but in the long run I expect we'll see more days like this without the system bouncing back.

    I talked to a young person the other day and they honestly believe they'll see the failure of capitalism in their lifetime. My worry is that the next economic downturn will be severe because there's nothing left to fight it.
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #4

    Ah yes, the wet dream of liberals everywhere.

    As long as people desire money, capitalism remains king.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    People cannot change who they are. Making any sort of alteration to one's daily behavior is a massive adjustment. Some people manage to give up alcohol or lose weight. But it's very hard and requires a person dedicated to making that change.

    Donald Trump will not change. He will not change because the Wall Street Journal writes an article. He wouldn't change if Sean Hannity and the Ghost of Ronald Reagan told him to. Trump will not change because of H.R. McMaster, or Mitch McConnell, or Paul Ryan, or Chief Justice John Roberts told him to change.

    Trump succeeded almost all his entire life because he lied and bull-*******; he threatened and cajoled. Because of his broken promises and unpaid bills. Because of his conman's gift for exploiting the greed and fears of others. His knack for backroom deals.

    Why so many people thought these were desirable qualities in the President of the United Staes, I don't know. They are beginning to find out they may have been mistaken.

    But Trump won't change. There are simply too many opportunities in the daily life of the President for him to foul things up. Expect some fresh hell from Donald Trump on a near-daily basis for the next three and a half years.
     
  6. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #6
    The typical near-the-end proposal of rascals is to print money if the pitchforks are at the door, and of course here in the US the spectre of runaway inflation has almost been forgotten since we've not encountered it in a long time. What does seem to have been forgotten is that people have to eat and find shelter no matter if there is 3000% inflation and truckloads of money, or zero inflation and no money. That there is a social consequence when basic necessities of life are not attainable.

    The corporate world has about run out their string of ways to keep their insane recipe for success going -- acquire rather than innovate, jack up profits by cutting costs past bone into muscle, offshore the jobs to reduce labor cost, automate to reduce remaining labor cost, redefine what's essential in the product, hammer on Congress to remove "onerous" regulations that were put on to protect and inform consumers, and now hammer on Congress to allow that one-time windfall of offshored profits to come home sans taxes.

    I'm sure I left stuff out but right there it's no wonder if the young are skeptical. The enduring theme is cut taxes, increase profits. It means feed the wealthy, starve the poor. The young look at these scenarios and realize it's "the end", not unlike drawing up ground water that's never being replenished in areas where drought has become not a transient thing but a climate condition.

    So they may wonder, the young, about the social consequences ahead of continued increases in deprivation of the means to afford necessities. So far the GOP seems to propose that cutting taxes at the top and cracking down on enforcement of the law at the bottom will solve the problem. I would be skeptical too. In fact one doesn't have to be young to be skeptical about that.
     
  7. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #7
    While I agree WS does what it does, the magnitude of a swing is a function of news.
    Dow would have dropped today, but that is dropped 370 points is the difference.

    Economists are saying our economy is not on any particular bubble,

    As for that young guy, he may be right. "The Tale of Two Cities" comes to mind with the ever growing income gap.
     
  8. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #8
    But once Capitalism runs its course and the wealth is back in the hands of a few feudalism isn't too hard to bring back.
     
  9. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #9
    Serf City, here I come.
     
  10. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #11
    Nonsense. Only people on the fringe would want that. You do understand that liberals make their money on capitalism right? There's a number of liberal minded CEO's out there too. Do you really think they want to see capitalism go away? I don't think so.
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    People are far too educated and connected to bring feudalism back.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #13
    Agreed to some extent. The issue is not capitalism per se but the wealth inequality it produces if it is not moderated and brought into balance. There are people in the US who are malnourished, homeless, uneducated, and in need of medical care that is not provided, yet there are people who fly private jets adorned with gold sinks. Stuck in the middle are people who are struggling to keep their head above water. I do not think this kind of society is sustainable, but I guess we'll see. People desire equality of opportunity as much as they desire money.
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2017 ---
    I wish I shared your optimism. We have an almost feudal like state of affairs now in the there is very little downward mobility from the richest people from generation to generation. And with the austerity fairy running rampant, the programmes that gave average and poor people a fighting chance are being obliterated, both in the UK and US. Wealth inequality has been growing for years, yet it is not even on the political agenda in the West.
     
  13. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #14
    Trying to figure out which hat to put on here. Is that a satirical remark or... ?

    Because in the USA at least, there are a lot of situations that are pretty close to feudalistic.

    Maybe i need a vacation. I read your post like three times, still waiting for my brain to signal I got it.
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #15
    I don't think we will go back to the Middle Ages. I think it will be different.
     
  15. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    No worries, the 1% (may) have their funds stashed away in safe havens. ;)
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    They aren't that safe. Most of them are ruled by our queen.
     
  17. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #18


    Can you show support for liberals everywhere would like to see the failure of capitalism?
     
  18. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    How did you come up with that, another Right Wing fantasy? ;)
     
  19. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #20
    Heh, I thought about inquiring into that post myself awhile back. Instead I went to wondering what we mean any more by "liberal" or even by "capitalism", there are so many flavors, never mind deliberate efforts to co-opt or rebrand both terms. It's funny now suddenly we are setting them up as political opposites...

    When Trump gets done gaslighting us, we won't know a liberal from a peanut butter sandwich or a capitalist from the king of hearts. Now I have no clue what's going on with the Russian thing, and it's possible Trump doesn't either. He really is unfocused and incurious enough to be standing in a mud puddle wondering how it can be there when the sun is shining. He's pretty good at gaslighting, not so great at messaging the GOP mission.

    At any rate, Russian connections are ringing alarm bells past both "liberals” and "capitalists” at this point. It’s about who’s running the American government and are they unencumbered by foreign influence. See the House and Senate, they all took oaths of office too. They may not wash their hands of this without finding out whether our government is operating freely under our own Constitution. It remains to be seen whether appointing a special counsel at this time was wise or not. I lean towards yes, not least because of Mr. Sessions having become the AG, and because it seems practical for deputy AG Rosenstein to signal that Mr. Sessions' current recusal from investigating things Russian is not the only guarantee of a full and relatively independent investigation. I can see arguments against it as well, including the drain on energies if the investigation goes on for a long time. I don't think Mueller's into dragging anything out longer than necessary. Mueller's no Ken Starr. Ken Starr didn't even want to be Ken Starr by time he got done, and more or less said so.

    What I do know is that those ringing bells Congress hears now are costing Trump political capital the GOP needs to get its agenda passed. Out in the heartland are plenty ordinary and less ordinary people who voted for Trump and the Republican ticket straight down the line, and they're looking at this stumbling administration with eyes narrowed because this is not what they voted for, never mind expected. They're not left-behinds. They are capitalists. And they are in no way liberals.

    Sure if I put a partisan hat on I could think Trump should keep tweeting his heart out, since I'm not a Republican nor do I favor that GOP agenda. He's going to hang his party out to dry with that phone if he can't get a grip on his duties and leave the tweeting to his aides. Hillary's godblasted tweets are a better draw towards the GOP right now than are Trump’s. The Wall Street Journal was once prepared to meet and greet a President HRC. Just because they’re capitalists doesn’t mean they’re in the tank now for a guy whose administration is as chaotic as the one Trump heads up now. They’re not liberals. They’re pragmatists. Trump should consider himself warned by some pros.
     
  20. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    #21
    Unless they are factory owners, corporate leaders or investment bankers they are most likely liberals and not capitalists...

    ... or religious fundamentalists, which means they are neither.


    Now, they might be supporters of the capitalistic system, but there should be no mistake that they are the cattle on which the priests and aristocracy feed on ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    I think https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...-news-for-republicans-and-bad-news-for-trump/ sums it up pretty well.
     
  22. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #23
    yah i was using the terms (especially "liberal") the way they are thrown around in here when disparaged.

    The "capitalists" i was referring to are conservative voters who don't wear their religious heart on their sleeve, but LOL I do have to say that illustration is right on at least for, say, those who manage factory farms or een smaller operations for behemoth agribiz.

    Some successful dairy farmers around here have sold out to much larger outfits. They still manage the holdings but there's a huge and spirit-crushing difference between being a dairy farmer and managing a unit of a dairy business. They could certainly speak to what your illustration offers. They surely voted for Trump but they are also doubtless fed up with the shenanigans in the White House. They're part of the reason I get a circuit-busy signal sometimes when phoning my Republican congressman. They are also part of why the Wall Street Journal was calling out Trump in that editorial.

    LOL their bit on "why this [the appointment of a special prosecutor] is bad for congressional Republicans" probably hits the nail on the head for the nervous Ryan and McConnell. Trump is the original "if you think this is bad, wait ten minutes" kinda guy and he's their guy.

    It’s likely Trump will do something else controversial — in the past two weeks alone, he allegedly shared highly classified intelligence with the Russians, and he fired Comey in a clumsy way that created all kinds of political problems. Republicans will still have to answer for Trump’s other controversial moves.
     
  23. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #24

    As a said in another post the middle might gain reluctant acceptance if things plateau, but politicians are dead set on making things worse and testing the populous’ breaking point. And there is a breaking point. And a lot of guns out there.
     
  24. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #25
    Too many perhaps, but it doesn't take guns... it only takes a few matches.

    [​IMG]

    (Image: The Telegraph)
     

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