Conservatives: Is this a popular opinion?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by samiwas, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #1
    So, every now and then, I log back on to a forum I used to frequent that has a very heavy conservative lean to it. Some might call it a right-wing echo chamber.

    Today, there was a discussion about how concentrated wealth is at the top, and one guy has taken over the conversation informing everyone of how "it really is". His opinion (well, fact if you ask him) seems way out there to me, and I was just wondering if this actually held traction.

    His insinuation was basically that government, and specifically Democrats, work hard to make sure that the middle class fades out and push as many people as possible to be poor so that they can fund their benefit programs with the taxes from the extremely wealthy since they would get richer.

    Part two was that Democrats try to make as many people as possible as poor as possible because that's how they will get their votes (from the people who require handouts).

    And the best way to fix these problems is to raise taxes on the poor and cut taxes on the rich.

    Now, at first you think...oh, it's just some tomfoolery, like when I might jest that Republicans want all poor people to die so they can give the rich all the money. Obviously a joke. But after about two-dozen posts, it became clear that he was serious.

    So, is this actually a widely-held opinion?
     
  2. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #2
    Oh the irony.

    If MSNBC, MMFA, and Talking Points Memo are to be believed, then yes.
     
  3. Menel macrumors 603

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    1 The actions of the Democrats make this conclusion very obvious to come to. Its either their goal, or they're extremely stupid. I tend toward the former.

    1b, 2 Wild speculation

    3 No way, most republicans support easing taxes on poor in some way or another. Even the crazy fair-tax group. Have subsidies built in for those below poverty line.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    I don't understand.

    Are you saying MSNBC, MMFA (Media Matters for America -- I had to look it up) and Talking Points Memo (a site that I've never visited) likewise report that Democrats are pushing the policy alleged in the OP?
     
  5. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #5
    No. Those are typically the ones that claim Republicans are.
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Got it.

    And it is a pervasive theme—that Republicans promote policy that is more likely to favor the rich.

    Do you think that isn't true? Or do you think it's perhaps overstated?
     
  7. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #7
    I personally think it's true being that the GOP rarely have any sensible logic in their choices and how it's always so obvious who is going to gain, which is usually big business.
     
  8. samiwas thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Yes, this forum is quite a bit more liberally-enhanced. But at least on this forum, both left and right usually put forth some effort into supporting what they say with articles, graphs, news, etc. That place is just talking point after talking point and the same regurgitated sentences over and over.
     
  9. ElectronGuru, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013

    ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #9
    If there's 100 ways something can turn out, only a few of them will be desirable and they will require effort. The rest will happen if no one lifts a finger (entropy). Poverty takes so much work to prevent/reduce, efforts to create it would be so widely successful, we'd be swimming in it.


    That just shows who's sponsoring the idea
     
  10. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

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    #10
    Supporting info please.
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #11
    OK, so what prevents the Republicans (or conservatives in general) from stealing the Democrats' (and liberals') thunder by aligning their policies to help the poor? Oh, wait....
     
  12. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #12
    They would probably say, "integrity".

    Because remember, it's not helping the poor, it's just perpetuating the condition.

    Uhhh-huh.
     
  13. Giuly, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013

    Giuly macrumors 68040

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    If nothing else, it doesn't fit the tune of "Obama's a socialist", as that's pretty aristocratic. :rolleyes:
     
  14. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #14
    Three points should be made about that graph:
    1. It plots income, not wealth. The rich get obscenely rich by gradually pulling away from the rest of us in *wealth*.
    2. The plot does not show the proportion of income taken by taxes - including taxes, such as sales tax, that are not based on ability to pay.
    3. Who here would rather be in the lower 50% to avoid paying taxes? <crickets>
     
  15. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Not to mention payroll taxes.
     
  16. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #16
    First time I'm hearing this.

    First time I'm hearing this, too.

    Judging from most people I know (Democrat and Republican), it seems that Democrats are more willing to help the poor, and Republicans are more willing to help those who help themselves. But actually making someone poor, or keeping them there? I can't imagine that's a widespread strategy of either party.
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #17
    To be fair some conservatives want to maintain an aristocracy. And given benefits can pay better than work I think some left wing people probably want to keep people as dependents.
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    :confused:

    Are you sure that's how you want to phrase that?
     
  19. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    Most left wing people want to raise wages so that work pays more than benefits and both are enough to survive on. Then there would be less incentive to use benefits and people who work full-time wouldn't have to rely on benefits to survive.

    And because we don't want to eliminate benefits entirely (so that, you know, people who lose their jobs don't end up on the streets) that's a conspiracy to keep people dependent?
     
  20. Huntn, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013

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    #20
    I see no merit in this argument. I'm not a conservative or a Democrat.
     
  21. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    Quite. As long as you don't pick and choose the words and context I used.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #22
    Surely though minimum wages should be high enough so that benefits aren't higher than working?
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    I think it's pretty clear the context you used.

    You just said that the poor don't help themselves.
     
  24. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Should be, but currently aren't. Hence the push to significantly raise minimum wage.
     
  25. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #25
    What I left open - but stopped short of saying - is that some do help themselves and some wait for handouts.
     

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