Consider the rMBP as 15" Macbook Airs and you'll feel better

mzjin

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 28, 2011
412
0
I know I do.

Screen is good! But still meh with all the issues. Much like the Airs.

Light! But still not upgradeable.

It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).

/4th Retina Macbook Pro and now willing to call it an Air and call it a day.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,759
319
I know I do.

Screen is good! But still meh with all the issues. Much like the Airs.

Light! But still not upgradeable.

It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).

/4th Retina Macbook Pro and now willing to call it an Air and call it a day.
I checked out the rMBP yesterday. My '09 MBP 17" is on its last legs (2.8 dualcore w/ 4 GB and bulging battery), and since the 17" is discontinued I have to go for a 15". The rMBP looked sweet, but some quick tests with Mission Control and scrolling in Safari confirmed my suspicion that it doesn't have the juice to drive 4x the pixels of the old MBP. Even the two puny MBAs next to it had more fluid gfx. One of the things I've been looking forward to the most is buttery smooth graphics, but in going from my dying MBP17" to the rMBP, I'd just be going from one choppy+laggy UI to another. Gah... why do they release stuff that isn't ready? Oh wait... to use money-is-no-object people as paying beta testers.
 

jedolley

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2009
1,779
6
I checked out the rMBP yesterday. My '09 MBP 17" is on its last legs (2.8 dualcore w/ 4 GB and bulging battery), and since the 17" is discontinued I have to go for a 15". The rMBP looked sweet, but some quick tests with Mission Control and scrolling in Safari confirmed my suspicion that it doesn't have the juice to drive 4x the pixels of the old MBP. Even the two puny MBAs next to it had more fluid gfx. One of the things I've been looking forward to the most is buttery smooth graphics, but in going from my dying MBP17" to the rMBP, I'd just be going from one choppy+laggy UI to another. Gah... why do they release stuff that isn't ready? Oh wait... to use money-is-no-object people as paying beta testers.
Every time I read something like this I just don't get it... It's almost like its a completely different machine we are talking about because my experience has been nothing but buttery smoothness! :D
 
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Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,759
319
Every time I read something like this I just don't get it... It's almost like its a completely different machine we are talking about because my experience has been nothing but buttery smoothness! :p
I guess people have different sensitivity for those kinds of things... I've googled around and seen a few discussions where some complain about choppy/jerky graphics, while others just don't get it. But really... if you're in the store and all the Mac portables are lined up side by side, and you go from one to the next, pull up the same webpage and set the scroll in motion like crazy, it's smooth frictionless sailing until you get to the rMBP and that familiar jarring sensation of a GPU buckling under the load and skipping frames in animations. I had that with my first Mac Mini G4 right out of the box, thanks. I have it on my Mac Mini C2D. I have it on my MBP 17" ever since Lion. I'm NOT having it on a NEW Mac. Can't they leave some goddamn headroom sometime? Do I have to time travel to 2017, buy Mac hardware and then go back and install 2012 OS and software on it so that I can briefly enjoy a computer with power to spare?
 

theuserjohnny

macrumors 6502
Jul 7, 2012
450
7
I think Apple will head in that direction though with the Pro lineup. As intel creates more powerful integrated graphics cards and improves power consumption I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th generation Macbook Pro look exactly like the Air.

However the question will be if Apple can find a reliable hinge to hold a 15 inch screen a problem they had with the 15 inch Air prototypes.
 

Queen6

macrumors 604
Same here, nothing but positive to say!
Another here, and i have several other Mac`s to directly compare the Retina against, under Lion yes there was some UI stuttering, under 10.8.2 nothing, certainly equal to my Late 2011 2.4 15" MBP.

As the individual you must filter the content of the internet very carefully, everyone is a "Pro", everyone the "expert", for the most part they are not, some are well informed, majority far from it. If you need help to make a significant purchase, or qualification on hardware, wait for a recognised source, not the kid with 10 minutes hands on in Best Buy ;)
 

bill-p

macrumors 68000
Jul 23, 2011
1,649
189
It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).
I'll make some gaming videos... and show you how "wrong" this actually is.

The rMBP can do games pretty well.

I checked out the rMBP yesterday. My '09 MBP 17" is on its last legs (2.8 dualcore w/ 4 GB and bulging battery), and since the 17" is discontinued I have to go for a 15". The rMBP looked sweet, but some quick tests with Mission Control and scrolling in Safari confirmed my suspicion that it doesn't have the juice to drive 4x the pixels of the old MBP. Even the two puny MBAs next to it had more fluid gfx. One of the things I've been looking forward to the most is buttery smooth graphics, but in going from my dying MBP17" to the rMBP, I'd just be going from one choppy+laggy UI to another. Gah... why do they release stuff that isn't ready? Oh wait... to use money-is-no-object people as paying beta testers.
I put my rMBP next to a store rMBP once.

The difference in smoothness is astounding. Mine feels like it's a completely different machine.

And then I realized the store machine was running Lion 10.7.4, and my rMBP has 10.8.2.

So trust me... store displays don't really tell the whole story.
 

zipur

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2011
583
73
The great state of Texas
Add me to the "I don't get it" list. I have tried hard to get my rMBP LG to fail. scrolling is wonderful, screen is wonderful. Now it may be the fact that Im coming from a win7 machine that choked on word, outlook and Itunes running at the same time!
But i am over the moon with this machine.
I opened every app I got, ran youtube, ran apples iphone add video, ran chrome, vmware with win7 (running outlook, word, adobe PDF and excell) so my system ran with everything I threw at it. No problems.

Then I opened Safari and bounced around several pages all was well,
then I found a glitch on http://www.theverge.com But I think it is the web site not my rMBP.
 

twietee

macrumors 603
Jan 24, 2012
5,334
1,545
... if you're in the store and all the Mac portables are lined up side by side, and you go from one to the next, pull up the same webpage and set the scroll in motion like crazy, it's smooth frictionless sailing until you get to the rMBP and that familiar jarring sensation of a GPU buckling under the load and skipping frames in animations. ...
Every time I read something like this I just don't get it... It's almost like its a completely different machine we are talking about because my experience has been nothing but buttery smoothness! :D
Same here, nothing but positive to say!
Didn't I read somewhere at MR that they use a special presentation mode in stores (Kiosk?) which is by far choppier than what one actually uses at home? That would explain a lot. Except why Kiosk doesn't work properly, I will never understand how this could happen with such an important machine...
 

sweetbrat

macrumors 65816
Jun 17, 2009
1,442
1
Redford, MI
It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air.
"Pro" is a marketing term, not a list of requirements that a computer needs to meet. If you're talking about what makes a device a "professional" device, that will vary a ton from person to person. People don't all need the same things. You seem to think that being upgradeable is a requirement, but there's an awful lot of people out there that don't. You may think it needs an ethernet port to be considered a professional machine. Many others don't. People are so wrapped up in names. Check specs, see what will work best for you. Why is that so difficult? You can think of it as an "Air" if you want...that's a marketing term, as well. It doesn't change the functionality of the machine.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
83
Poole, England
I know I do.

Screen is good! But still meh with all the issues. Much like the Airs.

Light! But still not upgradeable.

It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).

/4th Retina Macbook Pro and now willing to call it an Air and call it a day.
This just needs the obligatory "Cool story, bro" picture.
 

mzjin

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 28, 2011
412
0
Another here, and i have several other Mac`s to directly compare the Retina against, under Lion yes there was some UI stuttering, under 10.8.2 nothing, certainly equal to my Late 2011 2.4 15" MBP.

As the individual you must filter the content of the internet very carefully, everyone is a "Pro", everyone the "expert", for the most part they are not, some are well informed, majority far from it. If you need help to make a significant purchase, or qualification on hardware, wait for a recognised source, not the kid with 10 minutes hands on in Best Buy ;)
Hah! That's a good one. I suppose if you avoid Facebook, TheVerge and any other content heavy sites, you won't have stuttering that is absent on the regular MB Airs or Pros.

----------

"Pro" is a marketing term, not a list of requirements that a computer needs to meet. If you're talking about what makes a device a "professional" device, that will vary a ton from person to person. People don't all need the same things. You seem to think that being upgradeable is a requirement, but there's an awful lot of people out there that don't. You may think it needs an ethernet port to be considered a professional machine. Many others don't. People are so wrapped up in names. Check specs, see what will work best for you. Why is that so difficult? You can think of it as an "Air" if you want...that's a marketing term, as well. It doesn't change the functionality of the machine.
Not really. It's an Air because.... it's exactly like the other Macbook Airs just in 15" form.

----------

I'll make some gaming videos... and show you how "wrong" this actually is.

The rMBP can do games pretty well.



I put my rMBP next to a store rMBP once.

The difference in smoothness is astounding. Mine feels like it's a completely different machine.

And then I realized the store machine was running Lion 10.7.4, and my rMBP has 10.8.2.

So trust me... store displays don't really tell the whole story.
Yes, I'm sure you'll run your latest FPS at 30 FPS and call it a great gaming machine. While the rest of us gamers laugh at completely unplayable framerates. ;)
 

twietee

macrumors 603
Jan 24, 2012
5,334
1,545
Not really. It's an Air because.... it's exactly like the other Macbook Airs just in 15" form.
Still not sure what difference and importance the labeling makes for you? And it's as much an Air (soldered stuff, no ODD) as it is a Pro (dedicated GPU, 15", same form-factor just thinner, same Bechmarks as the cMBP). But what difference does it make to you? It's new tech Rev. A, with all it's plus and cons.

Besides when I got my first Powerbook gaming was out of the question at all, and I'm still not sure why people talk about a Pro-tool and see the gaming performance as an important criteria.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
83
Poole, England
Not really. It's an Air because.... it's exactly like the other Macbook Airs just in 15" form.
How exactly? I cannot understand how you came to this conclusion.

rMBP vs MBA
Quad Core CPU vs Dual Core ULV CPU
Over-clocked Nvidia GT650M vs HD4000

Yes, it is exactly the same.... :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure you'll run your latest FPS at 30 FPS and call it a great gaming machine. While the rest of us gamers laugh at completely unplayable framerates. ;)
30 FPS is unplayable? This is news to me. Looking at benchmarks it seems that the 650M can play many games at more than 30 FPS anyway.
 

Starshadow

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2012
32
1
I know I do.

Screen is good! But still meh with all the issues. Much like the Airs.

Light! But still not upgradeable.

It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).

/4th Retina Macbook Pro and now willing to call it an Air and call it a day.
I play Skyrim at 1920x1080 with high settings getting 40FPS at all times, higher in doors on my 15" Macbook Air Retina Display.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0.html

The one in the macbooks is also overclocked....

It can run any modern game and will run games easily for the next 3 years.

So no its not an Air, its a Pro and god dammit its a good one too :)
 

mzjin

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 28, 2011
412
0
How exactly? I cannot understand how you came to this conclusion.

rMBP vs MBA
Quad Core CPU vs Dual Core ULV CPU
Over-clocked Nvidia GT650M vs HD4000

Yes, it is exactly the same.... :rolleyes:



30 FPS is unplayable? This is news to me. Looking at benchmarks it seems that the 650M can play many games at more than 30 FPS anyway.
Both screens are meh. Air has a terrible TN display with good pixel density, Retina has good pixel pensity display with terrible IR issues.

Quad Core + Graphics run the Pro's high res display, but still makes the Pro lag more than the Air in day to day usage.

For any sort of realistic use, the 15" Pro will be used exactly like a 13" Air would. Light stuff. Movies, surfing. Neither can game adequately, though the Pro gets some of its encoding tasks done quicker.

----------

I play Skyrim at 1920x1080 with high settings getting 40FPS at all times, higher in doors on my 15" Macbook Air Retina Display.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0.html

The one in the macbooks is also overclocked....

It can run any modern game and will run games easily for the next 3 years.

So no its not an Air, its a Pro and god dammit its a good one too :)
Yea, 40FPS. That's hilarious man, I would kill myself playing a first person game with choppy frames like that.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,236
4,733
It's not Pro. It's a 15" Air. With a decent screen, and a quad core processor, and a GPU that people hilarious think can run modern games well (no, really, it can't).
Playing Borderlands 2, Guild Wars 2 and many other AAA games on 1920x1200 highest settings, absolutely smooth. And yeah, this is on a 2kg heavy <0.7" laptop (a gaming laptop with comparable performance is >3 kg, usually around 3.5-4)

What did you say again?
 

mzjin

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 28, 2011
412
0
Playing Borderlands 2, Guild Wars 2 and many other AAA games on 1920x1200 highest settings, absolutely smooth. And yeah, this is on a 2kg heavy <0.7" laptop (a gaming laptop with comparable performance is >3 kg, usually around 3.5-4)

What did you say again?
Of course, you wouldn't know Smooth until you've used any other Mac and scrolled through Facebook or Verge. :rolleyes:
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,236
4,733
Of course, you wouldn't know Smooth until you've used any other Mac and scrolled through Facebook or Verge. :rolleyes:
I have posted UI benchmark results on these forums showing that the rMBP has the same performance on that websites as other Mac computers. You are free to use search.

Anyway, since when is performance of (extremely buggy btw) Safari browser on websites with complex layout is indicative for the computer's ability to run games? BTW, Facebook lags because it dynamically loads content when you scroll though it. It will lag more the slower your connection.
 

Starshadow

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2012
32
1
Yea, 40FPS. That's hilarious man, I would kill myself playing a first person game with choppy frames like that.
Ok its obvious your a troll, for someone to say 40FPS is "choppy" you have to either be...

A) Stupid
B) Mentally damaged through years of abuse
C) A troll

The optimum rate of FSP that is sought by people who build PCs for gaming is 30+, its almost impossible for someone to tell the difference between a constant 30FPS and 60FPS by eye alone the only way you may possibly feel it is in mouse movement and most people only subconsciously experience this.

And if you are some leet FPS gamer and you need a magical extra 30 FPS to be better then you wouldn't have the resolution so high to the point that it even reduces to 30FPS, it would be way down for competitive gaming.

Not to mention we are talking here about a 4lb laptop that happens to be ultra thin, its gaming performance is comparable to desktops which is impressive with 40+ FPS on HD resolution on a huge open world game like Skyrim....the FPS games like COD and Battlefield 3 easily reach 50+ at that resolution.

I've fallen for the troll trap but there is always the chance you are pretty dumb and need an explanation as to why people call you so.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
83
Poole, England
Both screens are meh. Air has a terrible TN display with good pixel density, Retina has good pixel pensity display with terrible IR issues.
This is completely incorrect.

Quad Core + Graphics run the Pro's high res display, but still makes the Pro lag more than the Air in day to day usage.
No, that's not true

For any sort of realistic use, the 15" Pro will be used exactly like a 13" Air would. Light stuff. Movies, surfing. Neither can game adequately, though the Pro gets some of its encoding tasks done quicker.
This is a load of hog wash

Yea, 40FPS. That's hilarious man, I would kill myself playing a first person game with choppy frames like that.
I could put you in front of a game in a "blind" test so that you don't know what it's running on and I can bet you that you would not see the difference between a game running at 60 FPS or 40 FPS. But having said that, where do you pull these arbitrary figures from? I am starting to regret participating in this thread, because it's as frustrating as trying to have a debate with a tree, except that this tree throws out random BS and pretends that it is facts.

By the way, the same game would run at 10FPS on the MBA. So how are they the same?

What portable Mac are you comparing the rMBP to that runs the game better? The normal MBP, that has escaped your scourge, will run the game at the same FPS as the rMBP. Or are you just saying something again that you've just made up without an actual point?
 

bill-p

macrumors 68000
Jul 23, 2011
1,649
189
Yes, I'm sure you'll run your latest FPS at 30 FPS and call it a great gaming machine. While the rest of us gamers laugh at completely unplayable framerates. ;)
For FPS, drop the resolution to what the current 15" MBP has... (either 1440 x 900 or 1680 x 1050)

And it's 60 - 90fps.

You don't have to run it at 1920 x 1200 or higher all the time.
 

tdream

macrumors 65816
Jan 15, 2009
1,106
42
Ok its obvious your a troll, for someone to say 40FPS is "choppy" you have to either be...

A) Stupid
B) Mentally damaged through years of abuse
C) A troll

The optimum rate of FSP that is sought by people who build PCs for gaming is 30+, its almost impossible for someone to tell the difference between a constant 30FPS and 60FPS by eye alone the only way you may possibly feel it is in mouse movement and most people only subconsciously experience this.

And if you are some leet FPS gamer and you need a magical extra 30 FPS to be better then you wouldn't have the resolution so high to the point that it even reduces to 30FPS, it would be way down for competitive gaming.

Not to mention we are talking here about a 4lb laptop that happens to be ultra thin, its gaming performance is comparable to desktops which is impressive with 40+ FPS on HD resolution on a huge open world game like Skyrim....the FPS games like COD and Battlefield 3 easily reach 50+ at that resolution.

I've fallen for the troll trap but there is always the chance you are pretty dumb and need an explanation as to why people call you so.
No the optimum is 60+, so you can vsync without any issues. The difference between 30 and 60 is huge. Gamers even notice between 60 and 120 since the rMBP can't even do 60, I'm sure you have no experience what that is like. Don't try to convince other it's a gaming machine, it can game decently but it's not an amazing experience you're trying to convey.

I play Diablo 3 and Skyrim on my pc laptop 7970m on 60+ fps with vsync, max details on a 1080p for 3/5ths the price of a rMBP. It's a dedicated gaming laptop and blows the rMBP out of the water for gaming. So the difference between juddery sub 60 and buttery smooth 60+ does matter if you're talking about quality. If you're taking about playability, yes you can play but you will be making compromises, either in resolution or framerate. You can't make a 650m a 680GTX just by putting it in an Apple laptop.