Cop turns table on "victims" family, sues

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by XrayTed, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. XrayTed macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #1
    Since when is attacking someone with a baseball bat considered being "unarmed" ? The mother goes on to claim [of course] that her son was a promising honor student that everyone just loved ,, As if that makes up for having a bad day and threatening a police officer with a deadly weapon.

    Don't know enough details of this case to make up my mind - Obviously the writer of this op-ed has an agenda and isn't interested in objective journalism.


    Chicago Police Officer Is Suing Family of Quintonio LeGrier, the Unarmed Teen He Killed


    Officer Robert Rialmo — who has been on the force for three years — responded to a series of domestic disturbance calls the morning of Dec. 26 at the home of Antonio and Quintonio LeGrier, who are father and son. Quintonio LeGrier, 19, had called the police three times saying someone was threatening his life. After ignoring the first two calls because Quintonio LeGrier would not give more details, dispatchers sent Rialmo on a "well-being check," the Chicago Tribune reported.

    It did not go well. When Rialmo arrived at the home, Quintonio LeGrier allegedly came outside with a baseball bat. Police said the teen had been threatening his father, who also called the police that morning. Regardless, Rialmo shot the teen six times — twice in the back — then shot the LeGriers' 55-year-old neighbor, Bettie Jones, in the chest by "accident" when she came to her door to see what was happening.

    http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-police-officer-suing-family-170900524.html
     
  2. citizenzen, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Regardless of the story and its circumstances, I'm just happy to see you looking out for the sight impaired.
     
  3. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #3
    I don't usually bother to quote trash journalism as a primary source. I checked a couple. CNN quotes the calls that led to this. As for the officer, accidentally shooting someone should be enough for removal from the force without consideration of other circumstances. It doesn't have to be murder or manslaughter or anything else. If he can't sufficiently control his firearm under those circumstances, he should be in a different line of work.

    See

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/28/us/chicago-police-shooting/index.html
     
  4. XrayTed, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016

    XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #4
    I tend to agree, but once again cannot say for sure. Scenarios were bystanders are hurt and killed while dealing with violent thugs have been known to happen, and they don't always point to recklessness.

    I'll tell you one thing - When I hear shots I hit the deck first and decide what my next move will be after and yes, I have been shot at.
    Of course, she could have been felled with the 1st shots, once again no way to tell from a hit piece like this.

    edit: Here is another source, short on details but at least resembling journalism, and it says this:

    A law enforcement source told the Tribune that the officer didn't see the woman until after she had been shot because she was standing in the doorway behind the teen.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hooting-robert-rialmo-met-20160112-story.html

    So, if the thug was coming off the porch charging at the cop with a baseball bat and he opened fire in self defense, the shooting of the woman could be justified and understandable if she was right behind the thug blocking his view.

    Also says here the incident happened at 4:30 am, so it can be presumed to have been very or totally dark

    https://photographyisnotacrime.com/...-because-he-was-left-with-emotional-distress/
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    W/o video it's just the cops word and that is not worth a damn nowadays
     
  6. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #6
    harsh!

    your last link says the dead kid was inside in the hallway and the cop was out on the street curb. The dead woman was behind the door she'd just opened, which is why the cop says he didn't see her.
     
  7. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #7
    So it does, maybe looks a bit worse for the cop if true.
    On the other hand, many cities the street curb is just steps away from house doors, and in the darkness he saw a charging threat armed with who knows what, had mere seconds to react and took what might have been the proper action.
    I will say that if he had 20/30 ft between him and the suspect, the cops actions are less understandable. I would presume also he had a flashlight beaming towards the suspect, or maybe even lit up from the cruiser.

    Hard to fathom why a trained professional would need to fire off so many rounds to neutralize a solitary threat, my guess would be darkness at play again.
     
  8. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #8
    I was encapsulating recklessness and incompetence. It doesn't have to be due to disregard or malicious intent, and I don't look down on them for that. I don't think I could do that job, but accidentally killing an additional person is a very big deal.

    Yeah that's why I don't bother to read yahoo news. I linked the most informative piece I could find during a quick search. I would consider myself lucky. I've never been shot at.

    That is not competence. It wouldn't necessarily make the guy a murderer, but that should not happen and they shouldn't maintain officers who allow that to happen. Actually I would go further and say that they need new management if this is just business as usual. Most departments used hollow point ammo to avoid hitting people simply because a bullet glanced the original target and kept going.
     
  9. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #9
    If the kid was really going after him with a bat I don't feel too bad for him. However since the cop shot an innocent bystander that is a very big deal and unless there is video evidence showing that he had a good reason to shoot when he did and that the innocent person got in the way they should throw the book at him.
     
  10. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #10
    Sadly true. And nobody bothers to try to think from the policeman (or policewoman)'s point of view much less empathize -- the stress they endure, the fact they have milliseconds to determine if they should have to defend themselves from the person in front of them acting very quickly... Being overwrought by the media and the constant biasing and negativity does not help and I don't mean just anti-cop issues but related, albeit tangential, issues that happen but are not reported for the sake of inducing bias (especially where ratings are concerned or desired most) but that's becoming another issue easily worthy of its own thread.

    And how cops are underpaid on top of it all... a society is defined not just by how it treats its weakest members but where it places value. No value on what protects it is bad enough. Much less people in general... No value = no society.
     
  11. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #11
    Underpaid? What a joke. Cops around here make like 70k+ base salary, well up over 100k with overtime, and get cake pensions and union benefits.

    Compare that to a construction worker, fisherman, miner, etc. who all work more dangerous jobs for way less. Cops are paid more than enough for the job they do (especially considering how bad or corrupt many of them are at it).
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #12
    Certainly not underpaid in my county (Nassau County, Long Island) if they stay on the job a few years.

     
  13. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #13
    That is not necessarily the case, even relative to other positions of comparable risk. Here's their starting pay in Los Angeles with no degree. $57,420 while in training. There are modifiers for degrees, and some of the higher ranks like detective make well over $100k. Some precincts might be much lower. As others have mentioned they receive a pension after 20 years.

    The starting salary isn't a lot for Los Angeles, but it's considerably better than other roles with similar requirements (aside from dock workers).
     
  14. XrayTed, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

    XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #14

    So you would have preferred that he wait and take a baseball bat shot to the head just on the off chance that there might be an innocent person standing behind him ?

    I think its probably likely he wasn't sure what the guy was armed with, just that he was armed with something and rushing aggressively towards him in the darkness. In those circumstances, use of deadly force is certainly justified IMO.
    More than likely, the bystander was hit by a missed/grazing round and should not have been standing there.
     
  15. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #15
    No. I'm saying that if his aim and control under pressure are insufficient, he should not remain commissioned to carry a weapon for any precinct. This isn't the same as saying he should be prosecuted, and it doesn't make him a bad person. He is probably not right for the job.
     
  16. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #16
    At this point, that is only conjecture based on insufficient evidence for reasons already explained.

    You are of course as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, but making judgements is a different matter.
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    Video would be nice
     
  18. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #18

    Maybe, maybe not.
    A grainy video jostled around with body motion in the dark, both sides would likely draw their own conclusions from it. I'd like to know if another cop was present.

    What no one here seems to want to address is why charge a cop with a baseball bat and expect him not to shoot ? Its like some people think cops are psychiatrists or baby sitters, there to calm violent people down and make their lives better. No, they are there to enforce law & order.
     
  19. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #19
    in your links it was mentioned in several places that the kid had a history of mental health problems....IIRC somewhere in the links it also said that the father told 911 that the kid was having a mental health episode and was trying to use the bat to break into the father's bedroom....unfortunately people having mental health issues do unaccountable things
     
  20. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #20

    Fair point, but from a cops perspective, or any of us if we were his prospective assault victim, it matters not at all if he was mentally defective or perfectly sane. You either defend yourself or you will get hurt or killed. If I charged you with a baseball bat, I presume you'd take some defensive measures without any regard to my mental state - And I also presume you wouldn't try to be gentle and try your best not to hurt me.

    I was speaking more of some of the people here and no doubt elsewhere who are looking for every and any reason to blame the cop while looking right past the person who, without the slightest doubt whatsoever, initiated this whole series of events which led to his own death and that of an [allegedly] innocent person.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #21
    No you just have to send enough police to handle someone with mental health issues without shooting them.
     
  22. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #22
    Oh sure, maybe they should also have tried playing some soothing music on loudspeaker to relax him ! Beethoven, maybe ??

    Here is some new info, including claims from the cops lawyer that:

    * the cop "backed away as LeGrier approached and repeatedly ordered him to drop the bat before opening fire"
    * was only 2 ft away
    * "The round that tragically killed Bettie Jones was a through-and-through,"

    On the other side:

    * family filed the lawsuit before the funeral
    * father claims his mental son "never had possession or control of a weapon" and was not a threat to Rialmo or anyone else at any point.

    Odd, then why did he call the police minutes before in fear for his life ?


    http://news.yahoo.com/white-cop-sue-estate-black-teen-killed-063458935.html
     
  23. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #23
    That seems unlikely. Most precincts use hollow point ammunition to avoid that exact situation.
     
  24. XrayTed thread starter macrumors regular

    XrayTed

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    #24

    Most do, they are not in any case fail safe. They can and do penetrate and retain momentum, especially in very close quarters.

    I have extensive weapon use and training experience from the military, didn't use HP's a whole lot though, mostly FMJ. Most units have never used them at all, though I hear that may be changing soon.
    They are banned in many if not all European countries and in fact NATO/UN forces consider them illegal ammo - Which in part explains the US militaries reluctance to use them even though we can and, in limited instances, do.

    What I find unlikely is for a lawyer in a high profile case in a PC charged atmosphere to go spouting off best guesses and lies before a trial. He knows that whatever he says can and will be brought up at trial, and he'd better be prepared to back it up.
    He obviously has access to info we don't, and at this point is probably the best source for accurate info.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    The police's basic job is to deal with the mentally ill.
     

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