Core Image Hardware reqs not changed

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
Original poster
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
I know some people were (like myself) wondering just what the hardware requirements for Core Image will be, especially since earlier versions of the Tiger web page on Apple's site excluded the Radeon 9200 from the supported list.

As you can see, things haven't changed despite the announcement that Tiger has gone gold master. Other than listing the new X800 card and not listing the (presumably supported) 9800 Pro and 9600 Pro, the stated video card requirements remain unchanged. So it looks like the Mini, eMac, and iBook will not fully support Core Image for the time being.

My prediction: the three systems with the 9200 will be bumped to the GeForce/Go5200 at the next update (not that I'm taking a big risk with that guess - we all know of Apple's love affair with the much-maligned 5200! :rolleyes: :p )
 

Daveway

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2004
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My belief is that Apple wasn't going to scale back visual effect in Tiger to support an audience that probably wouldn't care about it in the first place. I doubt some entry level users will care if the "ripple" effect is missing.

Do you get what I'm getting at?
 

benpatient

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Nov 4, 2003
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Mac OS X delivers unmatched 3D graphics performance with its optimized implementation of OpenGL. Whether you use your Mac for gaming, CAD/CAM or scientific visualization, Mac OS X gives you the ideal system for 3D animation and special effects.
I have to wonder how this can be considered anything other than false advertising.

This bunch of dribble has been carried over into the official Tiger graphics page...it's left over from Panther promo material, and it's less true now than it was then...and I remember it getting pretty well blasted then.

The best part is the picture next to the paragraph of Doom 3.

I guess maybe they mean that no other platform can make such a high-powered processor/graphics combo actually perform as badly as OS X, and thus it's "unmatched"?

I'm trying to figure out how they think anyone believes that crap.

OS X has so much going for it that they shouldn't be lying about what it doesn't have going for it right now.
 

James Philp

macrumors 65816
Mar 5, 2005
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Oxford/London
I agree

For such an amazingly specced system, the top-end G5's can't compete in gaming. Maybe it is something to do with this?
We should also remember that you can buys top-end PC units (that I can only imagine people use for games) that come in at higher prices than the G5. (Maybe not if you have equivalent RAM though!)
 

jim.

macrumors 6502
Dec 22, 2004
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C-ville, VA
I thought that I saw the 9600 Mobility on the original list. Now it isn't there anymore. Maybe I was hallucinating. Was anyone else smoking what I was?

Jim
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,091
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benpatient said:
I have to wonder how this can be considered anything other than false advertising.

This bunch of dribble has been carried over into the official Tiger graphics page...it's left over from Panther promo material, and it's less true now than it was then...and I remember it getting pretty well blasted then.

The best part is the picture next to the paragraph of Doom 3.

I guess maybe they mean that no other platform can make such a high-powered processor/graphics combo actually perform as badly as OS X, and thus it's "unmatched"?

I'm trying to figure out how they think anyone believes that crap.

OS X has so much going for it that they shouldn't be lying about what it doesn't have going for it right now.
OS X blows away everything except Windows in gaming, though. FreeBSD and Linux are blown away :p

And BTW, Tiger gets much higher Doom 3 scores.
 

andrewfee

macrumors 6502
Aug 29, 2004
467
2
From what I understand, the "full" CoreImage relies on Pixel Shaders, so if the card doesn't have them it won't support it full stop. I don't know what version is required; likely 1.4, as 1.3 was quite a limited in comparison.

So if your card has pixel shaders, I'd say it's likely that the full CoreImage will work on it, if not, then there's no chance of support being added.
 

Hydra

macrumors regular
May 25, 2004
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Finland
andrewfee said:
From what I understand, the "full" CoreImage relies on Pixel Shaders, so if the card doesn't have them it won't support it full stop. I don't know what version is required; likely 1.4, as 1.3 was quite a limited in comparison.

So if your card has pixel shaders, I'd say it's likely that the full CoreImage will work on it, if not, then there's no chance of support being added.
R9200 has 1.4, anyway seems like 2.0 is the requirement.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
Original poster
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
andrewfee said:
From what I understand, the "full" CoreImage relies on Pixel Shaders, so if the card doesn't have them it won't support it full stop. I don't know what version is required; likely 1.4, as 1.3 was quite a limited in comparison.

So if your card has pixel shaders, I'd say it's likely that the full CoreImage will work on it, if not, then there's no chance of support being added.
I remember reading that somewhere too, and I think Hydra is correct on 2.0 being the required version. I'm curious to see just what effect Core Image has on general system performance - it seems to have a lot of potential.
 

eXan

macrumors 601
Jan 10, 2005
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Russia
Well, looks like my GeForce 2 MX will not support Core Image. Time for G5 iMac!

Parents, please give me 17" SuperDrive model with 160 gig HD and 1 gig RAM! :D :D :D
 

GroundLoop

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2003
1,561
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jim. said:
I thought that I saw the 9600 Mobility on the original list. Now it isn't there anymore. Maybe I was hallucinating. Was anyone else smoking what I was?

Jim

You are correct. That card was on the original list of supported video cards and didn't make the announcement list. I am just as pissed as you because my PowerBook (which is less than a year old) will not fully support Core Image. Oh well. There isn't much that I can do about that though.

Hickman
 

jim.

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Dec 22, 2004
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C-ville, VA
Brian Hickman said:
You are correct. That card was on the original list of supported video cards and didn't make the announcement list. I am just as pissed as you because my PowerBook (which is less than a year old) will not fully support Core Image. Oh well. There isn't much that I can do about that though.

Hickman
Actually I'm pretty sure it is supported. Those cards listed on the page aren't exclusive at all. There are supported cards that aren't listed. People have been calling Apple about their unlisted cards, and Apple has said that they were supported (see the Tiger release thread).

BlackAdder: CoreImage will NOT affect everyday performance of the UI. It is an API designed to help programmers add graphical effects and transforms to their programs. For the most part it is going to be utilized in image and video editing software. Maybe some people will add a little eyecandy here and there with it, but it probably wouldn't be smart if they want more than a couple of users to try their program.

I think you will be more impressed and happy with Quartz 2D Extreme, which promises to greatly speed up the UI, especially with cards that have more VRAM to store the textures.

Jim
 

benpatient

macrumors 68000
Nov 4, 2003
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by the end of the year, the next generation ATI and nVidia cards will be released for the PC.

ATI's R520 preliminary specs from a guy who posted on a tech site yesterday and who supposedly has first-hand knowledge of the product:

24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALU)
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
134.4 Billion Shader Operations per Second (at 700MHz)
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology (AMR)
Launch: Q2 2005
Performance: Over 3x Radeon X800 XT (for single R520)
16x stochastic FSAA
FP32 blending, texturing
Programmable Primitive Processor/Tesselator


Yes, that is insane. Will Apple still be shipping new PowerMacs with 64mb 5200 cards in them when the first 60GB/Sec memory-bandwidth cards are released? The mac 5200 Ultra does about 2.5 GB/second, buy the way.

wouldn't be surprised.

Insane. Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade again...*sigh*

I hope these numbers aren't faked. A couple of those technologies haven't even been in the rumors until yesterday, because nobody had heard of them being used in this chip.

Sorry to all of you who just bought a 6800 Ultra for 600 dollars...3x the performance possibly as early as this summer...and they will probably charge 500 dollars for it.

I'll settle for the mid-range version that's only 2x the speed of a 6800 Ultra and 250 dollars.

:)
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,091
404
benpatient said:
by the end of the year, the next generation ATI and nVidia cards will be released for the PC.

ATI's R520 preliminary specs from a guy who posted on a tech site yesterday and who supposedly has first-hand knowledge of the product:

24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALU)
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
134.4 Billion Shader Operations per Second (at 700MHz)
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology (AMR)
Launch: Q2 2005
Performance: Over 3x Radeon X800 XT (for single R520)
16x stochastic FSAA
FP32 blending, texturing
Programmable Primitive Processor/Tesselator


Yes, that is insane. Will Apple still be shipping new PowerMacs with 64mb 5200 cards in them when the first 60GB/Sec memory-bandwidth cards are released? The mac 5200 Ultra does about 2.5 GB/second, buy the way.

wouldn't be surprised.

Insane. Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade again...*sigh*

I hope these numbers aren't faked. A couple of those technologies haven't even been in the rumors until yesterday, because nobody had heard of them being used in this chip.

Sorry to all of you who just bought a 6800 Ultra for 600 dollars...3x the performance possibly as early as this summer...and they will probably charge 500 dollars for it.

I'll settle for the mid-range version that's only 2x the speed of a 6800 Ultra and 250 dollars.

:)
Nope, according to rumors the next PowerMacs (the low end) will all get Radeon 9600's, as will the iMacs and eMacs...

The eMac one will be 64 MB, the others 128 MB.
Hope so.
 

Val-kyrie

macrumors 68000
Feb 13, 2005
1,890
1,178
Core Image Hardware Reqs ARE Changed!!!

:confused: The 9600 and 9600 Mobility are not listed! Although it would be logical that the 9800 Pro and 9600 Pro should be supported--I believe both support DirectX 9--I am uncertain why they are not listed unless it is an Apple oversight. Apple is going to have a very large problem if the 9600 does not fully support Core Image (only the 9600 XT is included in Apple's list), especially if the rumored upgrades to the PMacs, iMacs, and eMacs are true--all but the high end PMac is slated for the 9600! However, on this basis, it appears more likely that 9600 does fully support Core Image. Perhaps Apple intended us to understand 9600 (and 9600) XT. But this still leaves the Mobility card in the dark. Anyway, I am not buying until there is an updated iBook that supports Tiger.
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,091
404
Val-kyrie said:
:confused: The 9600 and 9600 Mobility are not listed! Although it would be logical that the 9800 Pro and 9600 Pro should be supported--I believe both support DirectX 9--I am uncertain why they are not listed unless it is an Apple oversight. Apple is going to have a very large problem if the 9600 does not fully support Core Image (only the 9600 XT is included in Apple's list), especially if the rumored upgrades to the PMacs, iMacs, and eMacs are true--all but the high end PMac is slated for the 9600! However, on this basis, it appears more likely that 9600 does fully support Core Image. Perhaps Apple intended us to understand 9600 (and 9600) XT. But this still leaves the Mobility card in the dark. Anyway, I am not buying until there is an updated iBook that supports Tiger.

Why does DirectX 9 support matter when the OS does not support DirectX? :confused:
 

eXan

macrumors 601
Jan 10, 2005
4,713
18
Russia
benpatient said:
by the end of the year, the next generation ATI and nVidia cards will be released for the PC.

ATI's R520 preliminary specs from a guy who posted on a tech site yesterday and who supposedly has first-hand knowledge of the product:

24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALU)
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
134.4 Billion Shader Operations per Second (at 700MHz)
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology (AMR)
Launch: Q2 2005
Performance: Over 3x Radeon X800 XT (for single R520)
16x stochastic FSAA
FP32 blending, texturing
Programmable Primitive Processor/Tesselator


Yes, that is insane. Will Apple still be shipping new PowerMacs with 64mb 5200 cards in them when the first 60GB/Sec memory-bandwidth cards are released? The mac 5200 Ultra does about 2.5 GB/second, buy the way.

wouldn't be surprised.

Insane. Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade again...*sigh*

I hope these numbers aren't faked. A couple of those technologies haven't even been in the rumors until yesterday, because nobody had heard of them being used in this chip.

Sorry to all of you who just bought a 6800 Ultra for 600 dollars...3x the performance possibly as early as this summer...and they will probably charge 500 dollars for it.

I'll settle for the mid-range version that's only 2x the speed of a 6800 Ultra and 250 dollars.

:)
I want PowerMac G5 Dual 2.7 GHz + that card!!!!!!! :D
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
Original poster
May 7, 2004
13,521
2,557
Sod off
Val-kyrie said:
Apple is going to have a very large problem if the 9600 does not fully support Core Image (only the 9600 XT is included in Apple's list)
The 9600 Pro and 9600XT only differ in speed; their hardware is essentially the same and if the XT is supported the Pro version must be as well.