Court: Christian school can expel lesbian students

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by CalBoy, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #1
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/01/27/state/n172802S80.DTL

    This online version didn't have as many details as my copy of the SF Chronicle, so you'll have to take my word on some of the details. :p

    Basically the principal found out the two girls were in a relationship by checking their MySpace pages and then expelled them.

    I think the court's decision was correct in the sense that a private school has its own rights to determine who is eligible and who isn't, but did the principal really have to take it this far?

    The LA Times story on this seems to paint a not so nice picture of the principal:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-school28-2009jan28,0,4594347.story
     
  2. chilipie macrumors 6502a

    chilipie

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    #2
    What a twat.

    Legally, then, it would be possible for a private school to allow no black pupils (for example)?
     
  3. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #3
    I think the title of this thread is misleading. Obviously she wasn't expelled for being a lesbian, but for partaking in a lesbian relationship. So I don't know the legality of a private school expelling someone because of their race, but it doesn't matter since this is entirely different. You can't tell someone is a lesbian until they actually act on it, and it was the action for which she was expelled, not merely being a lesbian.
     
  4. CalBoy thread starter macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #4
    I suppose it would be.

    Private clubs still retain that right in the US under the Supreme Court case of Moose Lodge v Irvis (1972).

    I just think that the way the principal went about this whole thing was very unChristian. He made those poor girls feel horrible for being themselves. Expel them if you want, but there's no need demonizing.
     
  5. CalBoy thread starter macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #5
    I used the same title as the AP; if you have a problem, I suggest you write to them. ;)

    That's trying to split an awful fine hair.

    It's rather hard to be something and not exhibit the traits of it. Just because it isn't as readily apparent as race doesn't mean it can be treated differently.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    It's none of the principal's damn business, but if he wants to look stupid, he has every right. Seriously- poking around on the internet to see if students are lesbians? What else do you think the guy's doing?
     
  7. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #7
    So about expelling people involved in interracial relationships?


    (Oh,and this school is awful, and laws supporting allowing this are a mark against what our society should stand for)
     
  8. chilipie macrumors 6502a

    chilipie

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    #8
    FAPFAPFAP?

    Such a horrible way to come out to your family as well, if they hadn't already.
     
  9. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #9
    Agreed. It's especially ironic when a Christian school turns away a child when there are so many stories in the Bible of Jesus accepting everyone from every walk of life.

    It my fundamental problem with "Fundamental Christians". :(
     
  10. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #10
    And I think you totally misunderstand the Christian mentality towards homosexuality. Not that I want to debate the morality of homosexual acts, but the Christian church does not equate morality with "being themselves." In fact, Christianity and most moral systems put emphasis on not just "being yourself" but actively working against your instincts in order to do the moral thing.

    For example, someone were to find their best friend in bed with his wife, his instincts would be to kill the friend, or at least demand some sort of retribution. That would be immoral in most moral systems, so he actively restrains himself against his instincts.

    In Christianity, everyone is seen as having a propensity toward sin. Some people are inclined to cheat, or steal, or sleep around, or whatever, and you actively work against just "being yourself" to lead a moral life. Similarly, being homosexual is seen as a propensity towards a certain sin that should be avoided.

    Now, you can disagree with that all you want, but calling the principle unchristian because of expelling someone for "being herself" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. And who knows, maybe this principle really is unchristian, I don't know enough about him to defend him; I just wanted to point out the difference in mindset.
     
  11. costabunny macrumors 68020

    costabunny

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    #11
    Its for reasons very similar to this that I left the church (when I was 15) -so I can understand how those poor girls must be feeling. What a complete b'stard!

    There are rules to any organisation and rights come with those. What people like that principle seem to forget is those rights come with responsibilities - such as not humiliating people or ostracizing them just for being who they are.

    If it were a school I had a child at; with a principle browsing the students facebooks etc - I would have my child out of there before you can say bigot!

    He sounds creepy to me....
     
  12. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #12
    I sort of expected that it came from the AP. My apologies for implicating you.

    I disagree; it's not a fine hair. Saying that this student was expelled for being a lesbian is like saying that a student at a school with a policy against premarital sex was expelled for being straight after having premarital sex.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Exactly- in short Christianity, according to you, is all about denial.

    Regardless of what you say here, the principal's actions were disgusting.

    Nice how you lump us in with thieves and murderers. There is NO comparison. Please stop using it.

    I wonder how many kids this principal has expelled for having premarital sex? Christianity is against that too. According to the article, these girls didn't even have sex. They just said they liked each other and kissed. WFT Mac? Seriously.
     
  14. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #14
    Your sweeping statements do not cover the whole of Christianity, so stop pretending that the views of the 'Christian church' are for you alone to relate.
     
  15. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #15
    I agree. This guy sounds like a total creep. My point only had to do with the inflammatory headline that the AP gave, which was misleading.

    As for expelling people involved in interracial relationships, if you went to a school that was run by an organization that said interracial relationships were immoral, you'd be stupid to expect to not be expelled for having one.

    I'm not even sure why this girl would even want to go to a school that taught that her relationship was sinful.

    And I definitely maintain that private institutions should be able to determine their own standards of morality. The government should not be legislating morality by forcing religious organizations to tolerate behavior they find immoral.
     
  16. floyde macrumors 6502a

    floyde

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    #16
    Right, except that following murderous instincts leads to pain and suffering (Yoda reference not intended :p). On the other hand, "acting" on homosexual desires has the horrible consequence of making theists queasy (dear Lord, what an abomination! :rolleyes::p). Maybe you guys would be better off if you based your morals on human dignity and happiness IMHO.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    Well, that would just be silly. :rolleyes:
     
  18. floyde macrumors 6502a

    floyde

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    #18
    How so?

    Edit: *Nevermind, I thought this was posted by Macaddicttt. Mods please delete
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    No, that's not good enough. Even if the relationship was unequivocally confirmed, there is nothing unChristian about girl-on-girl loving. Chapter and Verse or you fail.
     
  20. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #20
    And if you have a problem with that, fine. But don't go around acting like just because you think morality is about embracing "who you are" that it is the only correct morality.

    For the expulsion, no. For the creeping around myspace, yes.

    Okay, crap man. I'm done. If you don't understand that I wasn't lumping you in with thieves and murderers, I doubt you'll ever understand the subtleties of morality and religious thought. If you guys want to go around acting like you know everything about morality, fine. Obviously you have no desire for an actual discussion, and just want to make post after post on this board about the evil Christians.

    I'm done with trying to bridge the gap of understanding. If you want the world to be divided into the "moral" who believe in being yourself and "happiness," and the evil, immoral religious people, good for you. Enjoy your culture war. I personally am sick of it. Obviously this forum wants nothing more than a continuation of it. Let me know when you're sick of it, too. Then I'll talk.
     
  21. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #21
    Did you just say that?
     
  22. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #22
    Christianity != only what's said in the Bible. There is a tradition of Christian theology that goes far beyond what's said in the Bible. Some of it is shared between denominations, some isn't, but there is a core set of theology that is agreed on by most Christians.

    See above. I have studied numerous theologies of all denominations and usually when I talk about the "Christian church" I talk about those theological concepts agreed on my 90% of Christians. If I get specific, I talk about the specific church and specific theology. As a caveat, what I say may or may not apply to people who call themselves "Christian" but have never studied an ounce of Christian theology.

    And who said I was the only one to relate it? Is there someone else in this thread relating Christian theology that I have criticized or told was wrong? No? I didn't think so.
     
  23. dvdhsu macrumors 6502a

    dvdhsu

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    #23
    For going around MySpace, I do find that disgusting...
    However, for the expulsion, I can understand. After all, they are Christian.
    You can't really blame them for expelling those 2.

    However, I do believe that expelling them is wrong; but it is there call.:(
     
  24. themoonisdown09 macrumors 601

    themoonisdown09

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    #24
    I graduated from a private Christian school and I knew a few people that were either expelled because they were gay, or because they had premarital sex.

    Our principal didn't go looking around for reasons to expel students, but when things were brought to his attention by other people, he took action.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    No - that's called being honest and responsible. Or perhaps we should all emulate Ted Haggard instead?



    I damn well know the difference between a murderer and a homosexual. It's you who used the comparison, not me. Obviously if you can't have a discussion or make a point without using such references, it's you who are being intellectually lazy, not me. You want to have a discussion? Then use something more comparable. Let me know when you're able.

    I'm sick of the religious acting as if they have a monopoly on morality too. You wanna talk, Mac? Then talk. And if you can't stand the heat, then leave the kitchen. Otherwise, start using worthy comparisons if you want me and others to "understand".
     

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