crime and punishment

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Wotan31, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

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    #1
    http://dailymail.com/News/200906040830

    Is anyone else disgusted by this? Anyone who sexually assaults a 12 year old girl with a mental disability should be tossed in prison for many years. "Counseling programs" for sexual offenders are bull **** and they don't work. This outcome is sickening.
     
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #2
    You obviously didn't read the article.

    In other words, it's conditional.
     
  3. Wotan31 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    The man does not go to jail, period, so long as he attends this bull **** counseling. Read the article and try again, you fail at reading comprehension.

    Did you miss this part too? So not only does he avoid jail time, but he also doesn't admit responsibility, and doesn't have to plead guilty. What a spectacular failure of the legal system.
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    You think a 1-5 year prison term is going to work any better than counseling? :confused:
     
  5. Wotan31 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Pretty tough for him to molest any more kids when he's behind bars, don't you think? So yes absolutely. Plus gives him plenty of time to reflect on what he's done, AND he has a tangible incentive to not do it again.

    A slap on the wrist and counseling is hardly a deterrent, and it's certainly not a punishment.

    There's a difference between a non-violent offender who has hurt no one (high school pot smoker, for example) who should be given a slap on the wrist, and a violent threat to society (a molester and rapist of children, for example). The punishment should fit the crime, and in this case, it certainly didn't.
     
  6. gibbz macrumors 68030

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    Well, in my wonderful state of Oklahoma, we let a 64-year old guy who raped and sodomized a 5 year old girl off on a 1 year sentence after reaching a plea deal with prosecutors.

    Link

    Basic human decency should have been incentive enough. If people have mental or psychological issues which lead them to such acts, they will be impervious to any amount of reflection or time in jail.
     
  7. gibbz macrumors 68030

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  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    But pretty easy for him to molest again in 12 to 60 months without giving him tools to deal with his sexual compulsions, don't you think?

    He already has a tangible incentive not to re-offend. If he gets caught again, he's going away from a long time -- whether he serves time in prison for this offense or not. A second conviction would carry a much longer sentence than a first, I would hope.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled by this any more than you are. I just don't see a temporary stay in prison as being any more effective of a long-term deterrent than his current sentence. I don't think either are likely to be effective, personally. This guy is going to need to be watched closely for a very long time.
     
  9. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #9

    Do you have any evidence of that? And not well my brother-in-law's friend's neighbor went into a counseling program, and it didn't work. I mean large scale data.


    Counseling programs make a heck of a lot of sense to me....locking some up in a building and not dealing with their problem, isn't going to help fix it long term issue. Yes, it keeps them from hurting other people, which is very very important, but I can't be the only way we go about it tackling the issue.
     
  10. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #10

    You provided too many qualifiers, sexual assault should not be tolerated, but as a society the good people are essentially laden with guilt to accept monsters among them.

    and then we wonder why crime doesn't just end
     
  11. mac88 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    This sick s.o.b. deserves nothing. Lock him up and let him get his in prison. Counseling? Are you people serious? Oh, so he is allowed to get counseling and when he decides (not if but when-because he will) he can then ruin another innocent life because it's humane to let him or any other seek counseling? I guess some of you bleeding hearts believe that the 12 year old (mentally disabled mind you) asked for it too.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    What do you do with him when he gets out of prison? Do you think prison cures pedophelia any better than counseling? Frankly I think he should have both, but I can assure you that a 1-5 year prison sentence alone will not fix anything, and in fact virtually assures that this man will offend again.

    I guess some of you mouth-breathers believe that the future victims of this man are asking for it. :rolleyes:
     
  13. mac88 macrumors 6502

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    #13
    You are absolutely correct. No matter what happens to this guy it will not solve his problem. That is the greater issue. There is nothing that can be done to change his predator ways.
     
  14. Wotan31 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #14
    I don't have a link handy, but there was a large scale study a while back that showed no difference in the rate of repeat offense between those received counseling and those who did not. I'm sure (as with everything) there are other studies that show just the opposite. My point is not that the counseling works or doesn't work, but rather, that counseling *alone* is not a suitable punishment for this crime.

    That's fair - counseling *PLUS* appropriate jail time makes sense to me too. Counseling alone though, is not a punishment. The logic used by that judge could be applied to any type of criminal - murderers, burglars, pyramid schemers, etc. I'm fine with the counseling - but only in conjunction with a reasonable jail sentence.
     
  15. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #15
    Chemical castration?
     
  16. mac88 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Never thought of that. Sounds good to me.
     
  17. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Only suitable in about 10% of cases, has serious side effects in some... and should never be seen as an alternative to punishment.


    Sure, try it AFTER he gets out, but why we suffer him or his kind is beyond me. Keeping them alive is just an insult to the victim.
     
  18. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #18
    Castration will do little to change his ability to molest some poor child won't it?

    My personal opinion (and I know I'll be blasted for it here) is that we should bring out the death penalty for this sort of thing. I don't have a study to cite, and perhaps I'll do some digging later to back this up; but my neighbor (who was getting his masters degree in Social Work and working to become a therapist) told me that things like Pedophilia and Sex Addiction etc. can't really be cured, only managed. What will happen is this man will go through counseling, hopefully it will be successful, then everyone else will have to bank on the idea that he will be able to use the tools he learned at counseling to resist harming another child in the future. Because resist is the only thing he'll be able to do.

    SLC
     
  19. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #19
    I don't know the statistics but they have been shown to work in some people. Anti-libidinal drugs decrease their sex drive. And the SSRIs can decrease their sexual fantasies.
     
  20. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #20
    We've got plenty of time to wait for you to dig this up.
     
  21. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #21
    But isn't it the same with most situations of child molestation, with sex having very little to do with it, and fantasies dealing with children even less. I always thought it was an attempt to assert power and authority.

    I know that the motivation to rape generally has very little to do with sex.

    SLC
     
  22. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    The odds are that he was a victim when he was a child. He probably didn't get the proper counseling then and it led to him victimizing others. Child molestation is a horrible cycle where many times the victims of this generation become the perpetrators of the next generation. It is society's duty to help these victims not kill them years later because we didn't help them when they needed it.
     
  23. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #23
    Wikipedia says: As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.
     

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