Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by squeeks, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. squeeks macrumors 68040

    squeeks

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    #1
    If this wasn’t such a tragic event it would be hilarious...

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379

    can the government fail anymore?
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    I think that given the situation, the government damn well better make sure those barges are properly equipped. We're talking about seriously flammable material.
     
  3. squeeks thread starter macrumors 68040

    squeeks

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    #3
    Yeah, but, these are barges that do this every day, but now that they are suddenly working for the government they have to jump through all of the red tape
     
  4. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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  5. squeeks thread starter macrumors 68040

    squeeks

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  6. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #6
  7. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #7
    That is what would raise red flags to me.

    I support the coast guard in this matter. Those barges are being used by clean up crews and they need to make sure they are safe and legal to use.
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    Exactly. We can't just let any boat in there. We have to know that they can be safe in this kind of operation. The coast guard did their job, the people who made the boats obviously have not.
     
  9. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #9
    "...then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges."

    Why contact the builders? If they're using GIWW barges and towboats, some of those barges are truly ancient. There either were or weren't life jackets and fire extinguishers on board. If not, "Hey, shut down until..." and somebody goes and gets the gear. Or radio to the home office and have a boat bring the gear to the barges. Down time? A few hours at most?

    As far as fire danger, the lights have evaporated off. The gunk they're suctioning would require a deliberate effort to get it to burn. Life jackets would be damned good things if a guy slipped and fell overboard into that garbage.

    The news reports I heard said 24 hours, but I don't know if that's correct. If so, color somebody uber-officious--but a lot of that seems to be going on.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    Red tape? You've got to be ****ing kidding me. What would happen if one of those had a fire and there were no fire extinguishers? Oh, just a big boat full of oil, no biggie.

    Any and every vessel should have the proper equipment to be sea worthy, and that means especially the safety gear. Anyone that doesn't agree, don't go boating in waters ill be in.
     
  11. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #11
    NT1440, to repeat: The volatiles are gone, okay? Evaporated. You'd have to work to make this stuff burn.

    I haven't seen photos of the barges which are being used. The GIWW barges, basically, are steel boxes. Commonly, 40' wide by 120' long. Empty, they probably draw two to three feet of water. In normal use on the GIWW, with its 12' depth, they're loaded to around 10' of draft. I don't know why the boats which push them are called towboats, but that's the name.

    Odds are, the towboats have fire extinguishers, and the normal crew has life jackets. That's all just normal deal. Probably, nobody thought about fire extinguishers out on the barges. Nothing to burn. I've no clue about the life vests...
     
  12. robotmonkey macrumors 6502

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    #12
    At the expense of not getting the job done?
     
  13. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Similar to the philosophy to what started this mess...
     
  14. robotmonkey macrumors 6502

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    #14
    No, that would be corporatist presidents and politicians hindering the free market and giving hand outs and subsidies to the oil industry. If we had a truly free market system, oil companies that do not correctly handle their product would be in very bad shape and it wouldn't take long for them to catch on. A decade from now, BP is still going to be around. Trust me. But if they were truly to bare all liability like an individual would, they would simply be unable to stay afloat due to the tremendous costs of the lawsuits they'd get.

    If the regulators would just get out of the way, much more would be getting done.
     
  15. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #15
    Both good posts and I think you've answered my question about the operation, the barges are old knock-around pieces of equipment, but not craft of their own, so the "tugs" should serve the crew with the necessary safety gear. This is what struck me as odd about the story, but I suspect you're right about somebody at the Coast Guard shinning the badge more than necessary.

    If the market could accurately include the external costs, you might be right, however, the free market has a very hard time dealing with externalities. What's the value of the survival of the Bluefin Tuna, aside from market price? Or Brown Pelicans?
    How does the oil market account for the value of the Gulf Oyster catch?

    Effectively you would depend on the market being able to process these other values and do so without trying to blunt or disrupt how the market 'self-regulates.' As we saw with the Minerals Management Service, when regulators were literally sleeping with the people they were supposed to be monitoring, the rules were ignored. What would a MMS-like entity controlled directly by oil companies be like?
     
  16. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #16
    Surely the free market is flexing it's muscle right now. People will be avoiding BP's products like the plague. Consumers everywhere will be checking that their oil isn't sourced from deep water sites before they fill up. Any oil derived from a transoceanic run operation will be shirked. And such rigs made by hyundai heavy will end up sitting idle.

    Or perhaps people will just buy their petrolium based in price alone. As they always have done. As per the free markets interests......
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    Quite, you'd have thought getting the safety equipment to the barges would be quick and easy and then they could pass the regulations.

    Maybe even the US will start buying efficient cars :eek:.
     
  18. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #18
    Do you know what the word "crude-sucking" looks like early in the morning when you approach your computer bleary-eyed before your first cup of coffee? :p
     
  19. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #19
    That combined with a picture of Bobby Jindal might be almost too much for an individual to take.
     
  20. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #20
    "Consumers everywhere will be checking that their oil isn't sourced from deep water sites before they fill up."

    Aside from the physical impossibility of that, an increasing percentage of ALL oil will be coming from the deepwater offshore sources.

    Obama put $1 billion into Petrobras, for their way-offshore very-deepwater elephant.

    But if you must be pure about offshore oil, park your car or your bicycle, quite eating farm-produced food, don't buy anything imported by ship, truck, train or plane and don't buy anything made of plastic.
     
  21. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Where do you draw the line? Should oil companies be totally un-regulated?

    Should there be no laws about multi hulled super tankers?

    If an oil company causes a spill is there any law that forces them to clean it up?

    How much regulation before it stops being Libertarianism?
     
  22. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #22
    Aside from this, there's the issue that such non-regulation inevitably results in chaos, such as what we're seeing now. Why keep business free of regulation, waiting until a disaster hits and then depending on public pressure or lost profits to "correct" the industry? Why not be proactive and regulate in such a way as to prevent things like this from happening? Clearly what we're seeing now is the result of a conservative/libertarian atmosphere at MMS.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    If there wasn't any regulation and I was BP I'd sell my petrol stations and tell the US to fund their own cleanup and sort out the problem at the bottom of the ocean too.
     
  24. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #24
    Umm we have regulation, it didn't work. :confused: I love how the liberals say "more regulation" we put more regulation in and when it fails its somehow a conservative/libertarian atmosphere. :rolleyes: Go check who was on BP's dole, I am pretty sure it would be hard to find a politician who didn't take some oil money.

    The problem is that humans can't regulate companies who are allowed to pump cash into the regulating body. In any other facet of life it would be seen as a crime, when it happens in Washington its business as usual.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    Just because the US is corrupt doesn't make regulation in general bad.
     

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