Cultural Appropriation

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
    When did this become a thing? In another thread, I posted how college students though that yoga class was cultural appropriation. I thought having a mixed cultural was a good thing. I thought learning from other culturals and sharing rituals was a good thing.
    I'm so not PC, bro.
     
  2. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Personally I'm still seething about how Americans have appropriated Halloween.
     
  3. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #3
    I thought and still do think that having a mixed culture is a good thing, as it brings about the sharing of other cultures and rituals from other cultures, as long as it doesn't contribute to the loss of those cultures, whether by extinction, assimilation, or otherwise.

    Good cases in point: in a rather cynical way, thanks to World War II, the US extended the life of the native Cherokee, Choctaw, and Navajo languages by having codetalkers use those languages throughout the war. Compare and contrast that to how many natives left that are fluent in the language. Had the US not done that, the languages could have died off decades ago.

    Currently, thanks to the Rugby World Cup and quite honestly, the FIBA Basketball thread from last year, I've become completely rapt with the study of the Maori cultures of the South Pacific, as well as their rituals for greetings and celebrations. For someone outside of the culture to want to learn about it speaks more to how important the culture is to those inside and outside of it more than anything.

    I don't know what's more disturbing; the fact that they think that cultures need to be appropriated into their own, or that they don't understand the concept of (social/cultural) anthropology.

    BL.
     
  4. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #4
    I think people have negitive feelings when they think their culture is being disrespected, altered, or themselves being left out of their own culture.
     
  5. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #5
    I understand what you mean but they'd be Polynesian cultures Maori culture would specifically refer to the Polynesians in NZ.
     
  6. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #6
    No doubt they do. But how much of that is due to their wealth of knowledge in their culture, and the lack of that knowledge from someone else?

    Another example: I almost a huge faux pas when I was in Australia, where when people and places have nicknames for their given name. For example Bazza for Barry, Gazza for Gary, Mick for Michael, etc. We have something similar here in the US, but you get my drift. In short, I thought that it was something "short for".

    Well, I almost insulted the entire native culture down there, as I thought that "abo" was short for aboriginal. It isn't, and is as derogatory to them as the N-word is here. I mentioned it once, and I was glad that someone caught it and explained it to me, as I sure as hell didn't know. But the more I learned, the more I understood.

    This can cut both ways: While negative feelings could come up, it's due to the lack of knowledge of that culture. Well, if someone has those feelings, and knows about the culture, they could help more by explaining their culture to someone so they can have that knowledge so that problem never happens again for those feelings to crop up.

    It doesn't help to get pissed off and feel disrespected when one truly doesn't know their culture and if explained to them, they'd understand their error, and not do it again.

    Good and fair point. I should have used a broader definition.

    BL.
     
  7. Populism, Dec 7, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015

    Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #7
    I don't want to pull your thread in a different direction, but I've been mulling over something similar lately - had thought about starting a thread on it. Basically it's the same as your topic but asked in reverse:

    Should migrants assimilate?

    And no, this question isn't intended for/limited to the current refugee migration underway. Just generally - should "we as a society" have an expectation that migrants assimilate into their new country?

    I say yes.

    Anyway, interesting topic.
     
  8. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #8
    White girls like Iggy Azealea rapping is "cultural appropriation" to the same precious snowflakes crying about "safe spaces." Excuse me while I don't give a ****.
     
  9. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #9
    Yes and No.
    My grandparents came here during WWII. They assimilated by learning the language and speaking in English primarily. But they never lost their culture and spoke Yiddish to each other often. Yes, they had their cake and ate it too.
    That's how I feel. If you come to this or any other country and plan to stay, learn the language, fit in. But pass on your culture to your kids. That's what bothers me about people who say anyone says immigrants should learn English are bigots and want people to give up their heritage. You can have it both ways.
     
  10. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #10
    I used to think the same way, but that was also because where I lived at the time had a lot of Hispanics moving in, and they were getting frustrated that nothing was available in their language so they could understand. So I was thinking "you moved to the US, where English is the prevailing language; learn English!"

    Then I started to think more about it.

    Yes, they should learn the ways and adapt to the culture of the country they are emigrating to; however, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't forget or forgo their own culture. They can assimilate into a new place without forgetting the culture of their home country or where they've come from.

    win-win for everyone.

    BL.
     
  11. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #11
    while I see and to an extent,agree and empathize with your feelings on this, I'll play Devil's Advocate by stating that Azealea is Australian, and could suffer from the same issue that I did; not knowing how volatile the situation or her words could be because she isn't overly familiar with the culture which it is directed.

    That said, I'm glad I've never heard a bloody word she's said.
     
  12. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #12
    It also smacks of sexism, since Eminem was totally embraced by the hip-hop community.

    I had the unfortunate experience of seeing her once on SNL. It was every bit as bad as you probably imagine it.
     
  13. bradl, Dec 7, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #13
    I no doubt believe it was as bad. Seeing that the last time I watched SNL, Betty White was on it, and that was one of its best shows. Before that, MC Hammer. Before that, Eddie Murphy, Ackroyd, Chase, Belushi, and the Not Ready For PrimeTime Players were on. And that was just sneaking looks before my mother came in saying that it was 2 hours past my bedtime.

    EDIT: Let me take this the other way, especially with regards to the hip-hop community.

    I still find it funny, after 25+ years, that while one culture thinks that it is okay for others to come into it, that they still hold a stigma for those who they think, by colour of skin, should be native to it, somewhat look with revile at those who take no part in it, or embrace another altogether.

    case in point: black people who are metalheads. Somewhere, the thought cropped up that if you played guitar and were Black, you were a sellout unless you had a R'n'B track history, like B.B. King, Bobby bland, Buddy Guy, Hendrix, Babyface, or the like. Hell, they even ridiculed Tito Jackson! But acts like Living Colour (who still put on a stellar show), were/are shunned. And what's sad, is that the rebellious nature in Metal is the same rebellious nature rap has (obviously without the misogyny).

    while the way it is presented is different, the culture within it is actually quite the same, which is what made that crossover work.

    To extend that even further, the same could be said about the mixing of races, but that is another huge issue altogether.

    BL.
     
  14. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #14
    Iggy Azealea is a middle class Aussie ex-model who's rapping like she came straight outta Compton. The whole cultural appropriation thing confuses what she actually is.

    ...which would be, by my own estimation, a poser.
     
  15. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #15
    Cultural appropriation is a ridiculous phrase.

    Because pretty much all culture is constructed by people taking elements of things they encountered from other people. Jazz music, for instance, combines rhythmic elements of African spirituals, some of the "whoops" and complex drum patterns of native American music; played on European instruments such as guitars and saxophones. In the early part of the 20th century it was further blended with Jewish Klezmer music, which led to what we think of today as jazz.

    So too with food; with art; with fashion; with movies: Every generation of artists "steal" elements from those who have gone before; from people and objects they've encountered. Those elements are mixed up, and reimagined; and turned into something new. Thats what great art is about. Its what great food is about. Its what a great country is about.
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    Cultural appropriation is different from cultural borrowing.

    Cultural borrowing is to grab elements from another culture, and out of respect and verisimilitude attempt to emulate and add to culture. So, for instance, lots of people take elements of French cooking and add them to other kinds of cuisines, that's just cultural borrowing. And, it's perfectly okay to grab Hatch chiles and try them in ramen soups to attempt a cultural fusion.

    But, cultural appropriation is grabbing stuff out of context and using it entirely because it's "exotic" in an often cartoonish manner. The best example is the feathered war headdress, a once sacred item that reserved for brave chieftains became a fashion accessory for dazed hipsters (and Cher back in the day.)
     
  17. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #17

    Thank for pointing out the difference. So it makes those who cry appropriation sound even sillier. Holding a yoga class is no where near like wearing a headdress.
     
  18. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #18
    Actually, I always got the sense that she unconsciously is a racist.
     
  19. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #19
    It's cool. People should keep to their own kind and not mix. That idea worked out well enough the last time it was a "thing."
     
  20. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #20
    My wife and Children are proof that what you are saying is a crock.

    BL.
     
  21. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #21
    That and, you know, history.

    Every current type of people we currently associate as a fixed race are the end results of other types of people mingling together over the course of a very, very long time.

    Eh, I don't know much about Iggy Azealea admittedly, but from what I've seen, she doesn't strike me as racist at all. Just kinda manufactured.
     
  22. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #22
    Very true. So with that said,

    If you are in the USA, when are you heading back to Europe, or wherever your family hails?

    BL.
     
  23. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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  24. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    I think so.
     
  25. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #25
    If that's the case, I'll definitely apologize.

    BL.
     

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