Cursive, to teach or not to teach.......

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. Herdfan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #1
    There is a bill in Ohio right now to require students in grades 3-5 to be taught Cursive Writing. I remember when I was taught it in school it was not enough to be taught it, but then we were required to use throughout the rest of elementary school. And I hated it.

    Anyway, what is everyone thoughts on this hopefully non-political discussion?

    http://fox8.com/2017/02/21/ohio-bill-would-require-teaching-cursive-writing-in-schools/

    My thought are that the students should be taught to read it and how to sign their name, but after that, there is really no use for it any more.
     
  2. cube, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #2
    Wut? This is something that one learns during the first grade.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #3
    first thing I learned when learning English was to curse :D
     
  4. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #4
    If that's all they are doing then there would be no point as most of the kids would promptly forget it. But it is a valuable skill so it should be taught and used in schools.
     
  5. Patriot24 macrumors 68030

    Patriot24

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Location:
    California
    #5
    Teaching kids to type > teaching cursive handwriting
     
  6. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #6
    And is signing their name the only writing they are ever likely to need to do with a pen?

    Of course kids need to be taught how to write, and how to write swiftly, legibly and accurately - and that tends to mean cursive, because it is easier to write rapidly in cursive than in block capitals.
     
  7. noekozz macrumors 6502a

    noekozz

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Location:
    212/201
    #7
    I was thinking about this same topic the other day being that I have two small boys of my own. My spouse emphasizes that our older sons penmanship be perfect when doing his homework (he's in 2nd grade), I bring up the point that it's more important his reading comprehension and that his answers are correct rather than how he writes his letters.

    He hasn't even gotten into cursive yet. I personally think that learning to read and write cursive for a child is important and has it's place, however, the future is digital and who knows, perhaps 10-15 years from now writing will be a thing of the past.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    All Your Memes Are Belong to US
    #8
    Since we're talking about a US State(mine), my answer is going to US-centric. Our Founding documents are written in cursive. That alone is important enough to learn how to read cursive.
     
  9. uknowimright macrumors 6502a

    uknowimright

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    #9
    I'm torn on this, I love calligraphy but at work when I have to read letters written in terrible cursive it makes me despise it
     
  10. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #10
    It would certainly appear that way at the moment, but there are real risks out there that could interrupt our use of technology. There is rising nationalism that could lead to a major war in our or our Children's lifetimes and if we lose access to trade with China we also lose access to the rare earth minerals needed for our digital technology to function. Also climate change could overwhelm much of our infrastructure and force people to live for at least a little while without technology. Do we want our kids to be helpless if they have to figure out how to do things without a phone or computer?
     
  11. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #11
    There was "no use" for it besides signing your name and reading it before, as well. Everyone could always have just written in non-cursive writing.

    Not anymore.

    Ahhhh, 2015 was a great year...
     
  12. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto
    #12
    I don't think cursive is the problem but rather the person writing. My hand writing is illegible if I use cursive or not.

    That said, I think cursive is useful and should be taught, just more emphasis should be put on typing.
     
  13. cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #13
    Maybe in the USA.
     
  14. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #14
    The "future" may be digital, but........being able to write more than your name is an invaluable skill.

    Here is a thought: Students at third level who take handwritten notes actually tend to recall them better than students who simply tap them into iPads. That is because they think about what they have heard before they put it into writing.

    Personally, I could not conceive of going anywhere - or attending any meeting - without a pen and small - or medium sized notebook to hand.

    Indeed, I find the physical act of writing exceptionally useful as a way - or tool - to focus and gather my thoughts. Yes, I use computers, but I use pen and paper, too, and use both, in parallel, daily.
     
  15. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #15
    We're not often on the same page about a lot of stuff but here I have to agree with you. Eventually if we lose all memory of reading, writing, teaching cursive writing, we'll end up needing a new Rosetta stone to decipher documents way more important than a hastily scrawled grocery list. Not sure we can really count on digital decoders considering the relatively vulnerable modes of access and storage that we use now.

    Most of us have probably heard tales of monks in assorted "dark" ages copying out sacred (and some profane and scientific) manuscripts to preserve them for the future. That they sometimes added marginalia in the course of a tedious day has been fun for scholars to find later on, but the main thing is we ended up with not only those texts but the ability still to create them by hand with simple materials, via teaching.

    This has persisted even though much of the world sank into relative cultural deprivation during various historical periods, sometimes for hundreds of years at a time, often due to the migratory impulse away from the chaos of wars. It's nice to think of ourselves as all prepared with go-bags for whatever comes next, but when such wandering continues for generations, there's no telling what people may lose of the tools of their civilization. Teaching and learning how to read and write cursive in form are portable and transferable skills of advanced learning; we shouldn't choose to abandon them voluntarily.

    Good cursive writing skills are actually easier on muscles than hand printing, too.

    Fewer kids now get a lot of chance to use fine motor skills as they grow up, past learning how to type if they do learn something past hunt-and-peck. Cursive writing is one of the things that does require fine motor coordination, even though printing requires a different if somewhat similar approach to hand penmanship.

    It has never escaped my memory from years ago hearing a prof at an upstate college remark over coffee one night that the kids he liked to take in for engineering studies were farm kids who had been learning how to choose and hand over the "right size" wrench or screwdriver to their dad working on ag machinery since they were 18 months old. He laughed and said the other thing is they end up with better handwriting too "for some reason" so it was easier to read their papers. YMMV but he seemed convinced.
     
  16. noekozz macrumors 6502a

    noekozz

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Location:
    212/201
    #16
    I apologize guys, I should have added that my son was diagnosed with ADHD, so my response was based off of that. But as far as kids learning to read and write cursive, I think it's great, though I don't see it as a requirement.
     
  17. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #17
    Excellent post.

    For all the "but we are in the digital age now and therefore no need for writing by hand" arguments, I was very struck by the fact that the first floppy discs used in the 80s to store information are now pretty much completely useless; at the time, arguments in favour of using this format stressed technology, (and modernity), and the physical space saved by compressing information in this format, suggesting that paper might now be redundant for storing stuff.

    Actually, nowadays - a little over thirty years later - the information on them is completely inaccessible - and thus, from a practical point of view, useless. They are already obsolete - and inaccessible - in a way no paper record ever will be.

    This is because the machines to read it no longer exist - and the material used to store the information has degraded, - so that even if a machine was able to read the format, it couldn't actually read the data, it has degraded so much.

    Meanwhile, papyrus - parchment and vellum from thousands of years ago is still legible, as is material and information stored on paper.
     
  18. BernyMac macrumors regular

    BernyMac

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Location:
    USA
    #18
    Digital information on media, or just a few years ago, magnetic information are easily denigrated into obsolescence and usually need to be converted to be read by today's machines. I believe written information is still valuable and I believe our kids should be able to access that without having to resort to technology.

    I remember "Good Manners and Right Conduct" being taught in my school many many moons ago. Are they still doing that or has that been rendered as unimportant in today's culture? I believe that it needs to be taught in schools again. From the way I see people treat each other nowadays, I think it may have gone the way of the Dodo.
     
  19. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #19
    I'm meh on the topic. I print, even my signature. Actually I use a self styled combination of cursive and manuscript. I don't see the harm in requiring at least some exposure to cursive. Beyond exposure? Nope, not at all.

    A quick search didn't result in scientific evidence cursive is faster whatsoever. I did find articles citing our knowledge on the benefits of cursive is actually quite lacking.
     
  20. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #20
    All I know is when I take the time to write in cursive form, it goes faster and I don't get cramps in my hand as quickly. Anecdotal, yep. And not done yet: I had to learn how to write cursive twice.

    The first time was an anomaly. I had a tutor due to illness during the first grade, one of those deals where they make you stay in bed for six months to keep from getting a heart murmur (or so they thought, they don't do that any more with rheumatic fever AFAIK).

    Anyway the tutor was from Europe, a refugee from WWII and a teacher. So she gave me lists of words to learn how to read and write, spelling and defining them properly, using them in sentences, etc. I printed all the stuff.

    She looked at it and said uh no, we must also practice the writing. I was embarrasssed, thinking somehow I missed more than I thought I did before my parents got the tutor. So, I knew cursive writing was hooked together at the bottom, more or less, right? Right. It didn't really help that my mother happened to half-print, half-write in her own mix of handwriting styles. To me that was "real" handwriting as opposed to my printing. So I thought I knew what this teacher wanted.

    So I hooked the letters together at the bottom, most of them, lol or at least sometimes,,, and her only remark was to say very good, much better although we do teach writing differently in Europe.

    Aye, and also in the USA what can I say. :D Remedial cursive for me in the 2nd and 3rd grade... I still half print and half write everything unless I make an effort.
     
  21. cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #21
    So it is actually worse than many people being untrained to read subtitles.
     
  22. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    All Your Memes Are Belong to US
    #22
    Wait. I knew about schools not teaching cursive and people not knowing how to read/write cursive, but now there is training to read subtitles? When I watch a foreign film, I realize I'm reading the subtitles for like two minutes and then it just happens naturally.
     
  23. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #23
    Cursive was the least useful skill I learned in school. The only time I actually use it is when I sign my name.
     
  24. cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #24
    Training happens by parents having their children watch movies in foreign languages. There's many people who are not comfortable with subtitles because they grew up watching dubbings.
     
  25. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    All Your Memes Are Belong to US
    #25
    Huh. Well to be honest I can't recall ever watching a subtitled film as a child. I was an adult when I watched my first subtitled film. Heck, now I turn on closed captioning just to make sure I don't miss anything because of my tinnitus.:(
     

Share This Page