Dan Savage vs. Brian Brown (NOM President) on Same-Sex Marriage

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vega07, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. vega07, Aug 23, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012

    vega07 macrumors 65816

    Aug 7, 2006
    Link to video debate

    Participating in this thread really requires you to watch the entire hour of video. :)

    Quite an amazing debate. Amazing in the sense that Brown has truly showed how warped the religious and right are when it comes to same-sex marriage.

    I watched the entire video, and all I could think of the entire time Brown spoke was how can someone with so much contradiction not yet suffer a stroke? Further, he just didn't make SENSE. He said a whole lot of nothing with a whole lot of words. Savage laid out very straightforward points, that could have easily been responded to in a straightforward way. Nothing he said just made SENSE! I tried REALLY hard to understand him, but ended the video with only more confusion about the anti-gay marriage stance.

    The only time he made sense to me was his response to "Do you agree with making divorce illegal?" He replies "Just because you believe something is wrong, doesn't make it illegal." TAH DAH!!! The first thing logical he says is something that made him lose the entire debate.

    So sad and uncomfortable to see Brown nearly frothing at the mouth at ~41:00. I really, truly feel sorry for these guys. They've been so possessed by their intolerance/hatred/disgust/(whatever you want to call it) against homosexuals and gay-marriage that they've concocted such a mountain of illogical and downright stupid defenses that they've forced themselves into believing and regurgitating.

    Reason does not exist in these people's minds. When repeatedly asked to describe the fallout of straight marriages due to same-sex marriage, Brown makes a fool of himself and the entire anti-gay marriage movement by not being able to produce one substantial example. And he wasn't able to because, as reasonable people know, there are none. And it's so pathetic that Brown refuses to even provide a hypothetical example of anything that would allow him to support gay marriage, when Savage did willingly (providing his instance of when he would not support gay-marriage), abiding by the rules of debate and courtesy.

    Very happy Savage took up Brown's offer for a debate. And I praise him for allowing that man into his house, to sit at his dinner table, and eat with his family and kid. Anyway, this definitely illuminated the numerous fallacies of the movement against same-sex marriage. But I can only see this same video being posted on FRC's or NOM's website declaring a win for Brown. :rolleyes: You can only say "marriage should fundamentally be between a man and a woman because that's how humanity should be" so many times. It gets tiring, and is just without any merit. Brown's entire argument boiled down this one statement.

    One can write an essay on how wrong Brown is, but it's late and I have class tomorrow. And it's not like anything I wrote here is new. :)
  2. Andeavor macrumors 6502

    Aug 19, 2010
    It's a miracle Dan Savage hasn't had a stroke already from all the nonsense he deals with on a daily basis.
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Okay. I sat through the whole thing.

    All I know is that I'd like to pop Brian Brown in the mouth.

    I want that hour of my life back.

  4. vega07 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 7, 2006
    Brown asked Savage this in a follow-up blog post:

    He's scared.

    And what an ignorant question.
  5. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    He's very scared. I just watched most of it and had to shut it off. Brown's argument's were all emotional and rooted in nothing but belief. I kind of felt bad for him in a way.
  6. AhmedFaisal Guest

    You lasted longer than I did. I am a very happily married heterosexual (with a potentially bi-streak, but that is neither here not there) and I really after many a debate with the people from the right fail to see how gay marriage diminishes the marriage I have with my wife. If anything, the disgraces that are many prominent hetero marriages diminish the the sanctity of marriage. I wish people were forced to think before they got married, and think hard but that is a debate on its own. Gay marriage, I can't think of anything more positive.
  7. leekohler, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    Trust me, once we win, it will still be a while before I ever get married. And if I do, it will be forever. Way too many people take such a thing for granted. I would never enter into such an agreement unless I were 100% sure about it. I'm at the age where the douchebag sensors go off regularly.

    I have no patience for idiots and control freaks. The last guy I dated was a rugby player I met during one of our joint fundraising events with my hockey team. VERY nice guy at first, as long as we were doing things according to his script. Once we did something with my friends, he was irritable, rude and generally unpleasant. Guess what? Bye-bye ***hole. A 38 year old should be over control issues by that age. I have no patience or time to waste on such foolishness.

    EDIT- just watched the rest of the debate. Brown's arguments were so weak it was sad. He just kept saying the same things over and over and would not address any questions. What was particularly sad to me was when Dan talked about adopting their son DJ. DJ's mother could not care for him and approached heterosexual couples to adopt him. They all refused, so Dan and Terry adopted him. Dan asked Brian if it would have been better if DJ had ended up in foster care with no parents at all. Brian wouldn't even answer that. That was the moment Brian Brown lost the debate.
  8. vega07, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012

    vega07 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 7, 2006
    Brown argues that we are calling him and his elk bigots for going against the goodness that having both a mom and dad can provide to a family:

    First of all, no one likes to throw around the word bigot more than Brown and his religious right. Second of all, no one is condemning the benefits of the nuclear family! Who in their right mind would? What he can't prove is that two dads or two moms are worse off in raising a family. And he can't prove it because it's pure fiction.

    Speaking of fiction, I found this picture online. :D Posting here for your amusement.

    Attached Files:

  9. dime21 macrumors 6502

    Dec 9, 2010
    I watched the video, wow, Brown destroyed him! He used facts and logic to do it too, without invoking religion as his argument. Savage couldn't hold his own in a single part of that video. How pathetic! Just goes to show how twisted the desperate these pro-gay activists are.
  10. chrono1081 macrumors 604


    Jan 26, 2008
    Isla Nublar
    I'll help you understand the debate since you seem to not understand it very well:

    Brown = LOST
    Savage = WON

    There's no arguing or opinion there, thats exactly how it happened.

    Pro gay = civilized normal people.
    Anti-gay = bigoted, generally uneducated people.

    Any questions? I can break it down with pictures.
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    As proven by this thread, reality is extremely subjective.
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4


    Nov 3, 2005
    I hope you find someone :).
  13. vega07, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012

    vega07 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 7, 2006
    It's not even an issue of subjectiveness. It's an issue of someone who is brainwashed enough to actually understand the BS that is Brown's twisted, illogical nonsense.


    The ignore feature is useless on this forum. People end up replying to them anyways and I am forced to see their posts in quotations from responses.:rolleyes:


    You might need to. Why don't you do it anyway? I'd love to see it. :D But then again, it'd be futile for people like dime21. He did say Brown won the debate by "not invoking religion." Talk about selective dementia.
  14. Grey Beard macrumors 65816

    Grey Beard

    Sep 10, 2005
    The Antipodes.
    Are you sure that you watched the same video as everyone else? Brown was Savaged. Same sex marriage will come regardless of your bigoted and homophobic opinion. Come to think of it, what a sad twisted little person you must be.

    New Zealand as passed the first reading of the Marriage Equality by a two to one result. If you can't work that out it was 80 in favour and 40 against. The same will be happening in the States as well, so you may as well just suck it up.

  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    To be honest I'm actually quite quite open to the notion that we are all "brainwashed" in our own special way. And while I think that I know who presented the best logical argument in that debate, I find it fascinating that like dime21, there are many people who see it completely opposite of how I do.

    I'm a graphic designer and I've seen similar reactions in my line of work. You could show a number of people two designs—one clearly better than the other—and you'll never get everybody to agree with that assessment. Somebody will always say that they prefer the other design ... no matter how painfully obvious it is which one is the better choice. We all carry a certain amount of "baggage" that colors our perception and ability to clearly judge reality.

    As evidenced by dime21's post.
  16. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a


    Apr 20, 2009
    LOL...Brown could have sat there and never opened his mouth and you would have still thought he "won" the debate. Because you are not reasonable and see everything in a sports team metaphor where your team can never ever do any wrong and always wins (even when they lose).

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