Danish Parliament green-lights marriage equality

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Queso, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Queso macrumors G4

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    #1
    Danish MPs today backed 85-24 the government's plan to implement full marriage equality in the country. The new law will mean same-sex couples will be able to marry from next Friday (15th June) :)

    Religious and civil marriage ceremonies will both be available to all, although the law contains a clause stating that church ministers can choose whether they wish to perform ceremonies for same-sex couples. The clause was inserted into the legislation to bypass an attempt by the country's right-wing Christian Democrat Party to delay the legislation in the courts on religious freedom grounds.

    Pretty cool. Thank you Denmark :) :cool:
     
  2. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #2
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    It is a bad thing. Religious freedom ends where others' freedom begins.

    Good job Denmark!
     
  4. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #4
    Seriously? You're against religious ministers practicing their religion as they see fit? This is where the gay rights movement goes completely off the rails. A minister has the right to say "No, sorry, I can't do that, go ask someone who shares your religious views".
     
  5. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Good yet another country joins the civilized world. :)
     
  6. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #6
    Nobody was ever trying to force churches to do anything they didn't want to. However, by spelling it out the spoiling tactics are neutralised. The clause is a good thing.
    Unfortunately it's far more typical for a religious minister to say "No, sorry, I can't do that, and I'm going to make sure nobody else can either!!" If they would only just butt out and let other religious organisations decide for themselves there would be no issue.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Huh? No one has ever said that any church has to marry gay people. This is where you people have gone off the rails. You make this garbage up out of thin air.

    The bad thing I was talking about was their attempt to stop the law.
     
  8. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #8
    I thought you just said you were against the religious exemption.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    No, I was against their attempt to stop the law.
     
  10. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #10
    It's getting there. France will most likely be next, although Scotland won't be far behind. :)
     
  11. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #11
    There's a difference between state recognition of marriage and a religious institution's recognition. There are plenty of liberal denominations in the US that do same sex marriage. I've never heard of one religious denomination trying to forcibly interfere with the beliefs and practices of another. Such laws would violate the First Amendment.

    ----------

    My mistake.
     
  12. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #12
    That may well be true of the US, but there is currently intense lobbying in the UK from the Catholic Church to try and prevent any form of marriage equality being implemented, either civil or religious. This is despite some of the less powerful churches, Quakers and Jewish groups publicly stating that they want to perform same-sex marriages for their congregations, and of course despite the fact that thanks to Henry VIII they have absolutely no official power within the country.
     
  13. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #13
    Do you have a reference specifically about the Catholic Church trying to stop it in the religious context? That sounds strange to me. Catholic bishops have wide ranging political views in different countries, but that seems strange. Doesn't UK law have something similar to the First Amendment?
     
  14. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #14
    :p
    Wait, I'm confused. When you say they'll be joining the civilized world do you mean they'll be legalizing marriage or banning haggis? :p

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    The Catholic Church has lobbied intensely against allowing civil marriage and religious marriage for same-sex couples in every country where it's been legalized. If you're really not aware of that easily verifiable fact you REALLY don't know enough about the subject to be discussing it.
     
  15. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Let's be very careful about terms.

    Civil marriage: A process endorsed by the government. Confers particular legal status between two people, grants various privileges and rights.

    Religious marriage: A process endorsed by a church. In the eyes of government, has absolutely no bearing on anything. It's like a little make-believe party where people pretend God comes down and says "You're married!".

    To say that the Catholic Church has tried to interfere with the second definition is what I'm having a problem with and would like to see a source. That would be like a Catholic bishop in the US filing a lawsuit because the local Lutheran church is having gay marriage ceremonies.

    It would be like trying to prevent them from having a bake sale.

    Or, suing to have their understanding of the Eucharist changed from consubstantiation to transubstantiation.
     
  16. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #16
    No, the UK has nothing similar to the First Amendment, and even has an established church (lucklly not the Vatican Dictatorship ;)). Cardinal O'Brien, the UK's most senior Catholic, has launched a series of tirades against both the Westminster and Holyrood Parliaments' plans to introduce just civil marriage equality, which doesn't even involve religion AT ALL, and a diktat from the Pope has resulted in anti-equality letters claiming UK Catholics have a duty to block the legislation had to be read out in every Catholic church and chapel during Mass some weeks back. They are even getting state-funded Catholic Schools to coerce their pupils into opposing the measure, and have ensured that Catholic newspaper editors and owners fall into line too.

    As it happens both the administrations in Westminster and Holyrood appear to be cheerfully ignoring the Pope and his minions and progressing their plans anyway, but the outright hatred being shown towards members of the UK LGBT communities from the senior Catholic hierarchy is staggering. It leaves absolutely no doubt in my mind that given the chance they wouldn't stop until gay people were facing prison sentences for correction.

    ----------

    Hey, bad diet aside there's nothing wrong with the Scots :p
     
  17. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #17
     
  18. citizenzen, Jun 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2012

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    I'm sorry, you're black. Get out of my church.

    Edit: I see you say "shares your religious views". Don't gays share religious views? Why would they be in a church if they didn't?
     
  19. WestonHarvey1 macrumors 68020

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    #19
    You'll always find people who belong to a church who don't agree with everything. Something else compels them to stay.

    You could go to my church and find gay Catholics who don't agree with the church's teaching on homosexuality. But they like it so much they don't go join a liberal denomination.

    You'll also find gay Catholics who do agree with the teachings.

    How people deal with that kind of issue varies, whether it's open defiance, cognitive dissonance, guilt, "Grant me chastity and continence, but not yet" or whatever. But all are welcome.
     
  20. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #20
    Not what has happened within the UK's LGBT community. Whilst the support of those religious groups that want to perform same-sex marriages is welcomed as a counterpoint against the anti-equality arguments from The Vatican the general feeling is that as this is Civil Marriage being proposed no religious group should be involved. It is a state matter, not a religious one.

    Anyway, enough about the puppet Cardinals and enough about the current UK situation. This thread is about Denmark. It's wonderful news, and we shouldn't get distracted from it.
     
  21. Mac'nCheese, Jun 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2012

    Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #21



    I have no problem with that. The stupider the views of a church are, the more likely the next generation will stop going.
     
  22. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #22
    Says you. :(

    It's done. Get over it. Let others enjoy the event.

    No need for you to be in this thread anymore.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Many of us here don't care a lick if a church recognized a marriage or not.

    We're interested in state recognition.

    Once that's achieved, the church can do whatever they want IMO.
     
  24. Grey Beard macrumors 65816

    Grey Beard

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    #24
    Good on the Danes.

    I'd like to think that following a TVNZ poll last week, those polled returned 63% in favour of same sex marriage. Even our prime munster said he was not against it. The australian parliamentarians should suck on that.

    KGB:D
     
  25. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #25
    Your right, the government only recognizes civil marriages, religious ones are meaningless in its eyes. Same with divorce.
     

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