Dave Ramsey: Jesus was wrong to say rich people can't go to heaven

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Michael Goff, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Michael Goff, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014

    Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #1
    You read it here first, folks. Don't listen to Jesus, listen to this rich guy. He knows better.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/...s-wrong-to-say-rich-people-cant-go-to-heaven/
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    Poor giving 10% is no where near the same as the rich giving 10%. Money rules religion
     
  3. burgundyyears macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Dave Ramsey gives very practical financial advice that is actually pretty good. I will admit to subscribing to it while not exactly subscribing to any particular theological underpinning he may hold. He also did not say Jesus was wrong. Heck, in the cited scripture Jesus himself says the rich man could be saved all of two verses later:

     
  4. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #4
    I always took the verses to mean that if you hold money to be of primary importance, you're screwed. Also... I've always been confused by this. Why did Jesus even say the first part if he's going to just come up two verses later and basically say the first part is wrong?
     
  5. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
  6. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #6
    His discussion is about the inaccurate use of said scripture by christian social-democrats to push progressive tax policies and redistribution of wealth.

    To these people, government redistribution backed by threat of force sanctifies rich people because they dont deserve what people give them in trade for product/services.

    This entire concept is not logical.
     
  7. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #7
    I love it when people throw around the whole "threat of force" argument.
     
  8. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #8
    He's right, and you're totally injecting your own meaning into what he said in a weak attempt to smear both a fiscal conservative and Christians in one swipe.

    I never thought I'd see the day when such a thing happened on PRSI
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #9
    every single Christian interjects their own meaning into scripture.
     
  10. AX338 macrumors regular

    AX338

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    #10
    Don't the jews pay more to be buried near the top of Mount Olive so they can get in quicker than those near the bottom at the back of the queue?

    "A new real estate deal may emerge to be the most lucrative ever signed. A French group obtained 5.5 dunams (about 1.3 acres) of land for burial on Jerusalem's Mount of Olives from businessmen Eli Yisraeli and Yossi Reich for $24 million.

    The group intends to establish a VIP burial section for wealthy Jews, with expected profits of $100 million. The entrepreneurs said that they plan to hire the services of one of 17 existing Hevra Kadishas (Jewish burial authorities) in order to operate the cemetery."

    Money talks!

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3697236,00.html
     
  11. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #11
    But Michael Goff injected his own meaning into Dave Ramsay's statement.
     
  12. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #12
    Then I take it, you are of the crowd who claims tax is optional and voluntary? And that nothing negative happens if you refrain from paying.

    That is a fallacy. There are indeed penalties.
     
  13. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    I'd hate to live in a country that uses myth and superstition to establish tax policy. Sounds like Iran.
     
  14. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #14
  15. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #15
    What sentiments would those be?
     
  16. iMacFarlane macrumors 65816

    iMacFarlane

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    #16
    Sounds legit, but that last verse doesn't really address the issue. Elsewhere Jesus says that the rich should give away everything they own and follow him. If they did that (whispering) they wouldn't be rich anymore. :rolleyes:

    So, reading a little further in the selected passage, we come up with this awesomeness:

    Matthew 20:16
    "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

    Mark 10:31
    But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

    Luke 13:30
    Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."

    Or, as Ricky Bobby wisely based his life on:
    "If you're not first, you're last".
     
  17. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #17
    The parts where he says "Be excellent to each other" kind of go against the modern ethos of predatory capitalism.
     
  18. Symtex macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Bill and Ted would approved !
     
  19. Michael Goff, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014

    Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #19
    No, I'm exposing hypocrites who worship the mighty dollar and don't follow what they say they do. Jesus was about giving up your wealth in the bible.
     
  20. jkcerda, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014

    jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  21. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #21
    And there are penalties for not paying for the Big Mac you bought, too. Wouldn't say that McDonalds is threatening force. Taxes are your fee for living in a civilized society.

    ----------

    You can tell when I use my phone and don't check, you get some awesome typos.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #22
    neither do I :p

    anyways, I disagree with your edited post, you are not "smearing", you are "exposing" .
     
  23. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #23
    I like that word better, I'm going to use that one instead. It's more honest, after all.
     
  24. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #24
    I think you are oversimplifying things and maybe misrepresenting Christ's position on money and wealth. All of scripture points us toward the truth that our relationship with God should come before everything else in life, especially temporary things like wealth and possessions. With that foundation we can truly understand that we don't "own" anything. God is our creator and sustainer. He calls us to enjoy life and be good stewards of what we have. Being a good steward means using our time, talents, wealth, and possessions to his glory.

    In fact, Jesus talked about money a lot more than he talked about other subjects. God is not against people being wealthy or having means. What he is against, is those who put their wealth and stuff before him or others.
     
  25. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #25
    Exactly.

    This is what I was tempted to write the other day, but I thought I'd give MG a chance to re-evaluate. That clearly hasn't/won't happen so I'm glad you left this explanation here for subsequent readers to see.
     

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