David Frum's take on Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jpietrzak8, May 27, 2017.

  1. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #1
    In the Atlantic, David Frum has used the events of the past week to outline a very scary theory of how the Right operates in the age of Trump. His article has the title "Trump's Moral Holiday", and is a very good read. Here's a quote:

    Half a century ago, conservative commentators often blamed the riots of the 1960s on the “moral holiday” declared by permissive authorities. Leaders who might have delegitimized violence instead acquiesced in it, thus inviting more of it. For many conservatives, May 25 was a moral holiday of their own.

    ...


    These four events each represent one of the great themes of the Trump era:
    • The anti-alliance pro-Russia tilt of administration policy
    • Collusion with hostile foreign nations for domestic political advantage
    • Use of political power for personal financial advantage
    • The breakdown of inhibitions and the weakening of sanctions against political violence.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/trumps-moral-holiday/528327/
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #2
    The left has been on moral holiday since Trump was inaugurated, violent protests, egging people, insisting whites leave campuses (even professors), not allowing conservative speakers on publicly funded campuses. Etc.
     
  3. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #3
    Yup, that's exactly what Frum is saying: the ascendance of Trump has heralded a period where morality no longer matters. On either side.

    After all, "If the President of the United States does it, why shouldn't I?"
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #4
    I don't agree with his theory, Trump has never been physically violent to anyone, that's where the line ends.
     
  5. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #5
    Well, so long as you consider "grabbing *****" as not being physically violent.

    But no: Frum's point is not that Trump is assaulting people day and night, and therefore making it permissible (and therefore, yes, his argument is not what I argued in my last post, so sorry about that). His statement is this:

    Leaders who might have delegitimized violence instead acquiesced in it, thus inviting more of it.​

    And yes, Trump has very much acquiesced to violence, and even invited it at his rallies. And yes, a large portion of the GOP acquiesced to Gianforte's body slam. So yeah, our political leaders are encouraging violence, not discouraging it.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #6
    I'm more of a proponent of personal responsibility. I don't think excusing yourself for being physically violent because you saw someone else do it holds water. One assumes the left would hold themselves to a higher standard. From up North you guys look just as bad as Trump Co.
     
  7. jpietrzak8, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017

    jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #7
    Again, that's kind of the point Frum's making here. Nobody is holding themselves to a higher standard. Everybody is doing things the way Trump does things.
     
  8. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #8
    Deflect much?

    He has said that he would like to punch people in the face. He has encouraged other people to commit acts of violence for him and that he would pay their legal bills. He said he liked the good ol' days when people were carried out on stretchers. So, I am going to say he is an enabler and instigator of violence which is bad too.

    I sincerely doubt most of the people around you "up north" agree with you. Unless by "up north" you mean Sarah Palin's Alaska.
     
  9. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #9
    "Slap politician" Checked off list

     
  10. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    #10

    Just essentially called for it during the campaign.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #11
    If you notice the politician gives him a pat on the back after he "pushes" him out of the way. They could have just been playing around.

    I actually didn't notice this until watching your video because the gifs cut it out or it's not clear enough
     
  12. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #12
    Oh, well, that's an odd anti-American philosophy known as "political correctness". Even if you dislike the person next to you, you still act in a polite manner and hold your tongue. It is remarkably effective when used in government, as coming to an agreement with other lawmakers is easier when you are nice to them than when you punch them in the face.
     
  13. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #13
    I'm sure if the guy had shoved Trump back, (or worse) you would have a different opinion of the incident and blame the other guy for all sorts of things.
     
  14. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Location:
    Space--The ONLY Frontier
    #14
    No that's not where the line ends.

    If Trump ferments hatred and other people commit the crime Trump is just as responsible.

    The guy is President. He doesn't just be President he also represents this country.

    And hes not doing a very good job of that right now nor did he when he ran.
     
  15. unlinked macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Ireland
    #15
    Except most of the things Zombie Acorn listed happened before Trumps election too.
     
  16. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #16
    Really? Sure, antisocial behavior can be found to some extent anywhere you go; but having a head of state proclaim the end of political correctness? Having him pining for the days when protesters were "taken out on a stretcher"? Having him say that he'll absorb the legal fees of anybody who punches a protester? And when a GOP candidate does actually assault a reporter, folks on the right are literally celebrating?

    No, the environment post-Trump is very different from that pre-Trump. The radicals on both the left and right have always advocated violence, but they've always been on the fringes. But with Trump, one of the fringes now has real power. And if the government now starts backing their violence? Well, that will be a very new day in America.
     
  17. Zenithal macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #17
    Moral holiday? Hah. Another fake conservative. If anything, my party, the Republican party, has been on a moral holiday since Reagan.
     
  18. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #18
    Hey, I think Bush 41 did a fine job.
     
  19. Zenithal macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #19
    It was rather fifty fifty then. Compared to general Republican offerings, he was rather good, and he did get my vote then.
     
  20. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    #20
    Oh I fully understand this point. I've tried to make that point here, but usually in an obtuse way. People here support Trump, but turn around and chastise my admittedly ******* point of views. Guess what you fools, I'm behaving just like Trump! They can't even see the irony lol.
     

Share This Page