David Hogg Is Fair Game for Critics

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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Yes yes yes this article is spot on.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/david-hogg-is-fair-game-for-critics/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Or could it be, perhaps, that Hogg has become a liability and that his champions now regret having thrust him into the limelight? One certainly couldn’t blame them if they did, for Hogg is in fact a pretty poor advocate. And why, pray, would he be otherwise? Suffering through a terrible crime gives a person no special insight into its causes, and Hogg has no special insight into its causes — or, frankly, into anything else. He’s ignorant about basic civics; he’s liable to backward reasoning; and, unable as he is to synthesize the evolving talking points upon which he relies, he has increasingly come across as slippery. In perhaps his most embarrassing moment thus far, he shifted from arguing that the cop on duty who stood outside and did nothing while his classmates were slaughtered was correct to demur (not a great message, all told) to making the opposite case when he sensed an opportunity to lay the blame at the feet of Governor Scott — who, of course, had nothing to do with running the sheriff’s department responsible for failing to save his classmates. Demosthenes he is not.
 

Tapiture

macrumors 65816
Oct 1, 2016
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Oh great a National Review article.

As is typical with National Review, they invented a liberal standpoint that nobody actually has. Nobody has said that you can’t critique these kid’s arguments. We have simply said it’s disgusting for people to smear and defame them and make up conspiracy theories about them.

It’s fair to criticize his arguments, sure, but we also must realize someone his age can’t be expected to have solid principles or have the eloquence and grit to flourish in the spotlight.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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Who said he can't be criticized. But attacking him without abandon isn't productive nor necessary.

I am amused how much this kid has gotten under your skin though.
He’s the one out there attacking without abandon. But he’s a TV Star now, has a blue checkmark and gets lots of likes and re-tweets. I’m sure CNN or MSNBC will hire him as soon as he gets out of high school. :)
 

samcraig

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He’s the one out there attacking without abandon. But he’s a TV Star now, has a blue checkmark and gets lots of likes and re-tweets. I’m sure CNN or MSNBC will hire him as soon as he gets out of high school. :)
So I don't understand. Are you jealous? Are you threatened by him wielding power with his words and those that agree with him. What exactly is your issue?

And no - he isn't the one out there (only) attacking with abandon. The right and ardent 2A supporters are definitely doing their best to silence him. To utter failure.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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Oh great a National Review article.

As is typical with National Review, they invented a liberal standpoint that nobody actually has. Nobody has said that you can’t critique these kid’s arguments. We have simply said it’s disgusting for people to smear and defame them and make up conspiracy theories about them.

It’s fair to criticize his arguments, sure, but we also must realize someone his age can’t be expected to have solid principles or have the eloquence and grit to flourish in the spotlight.
Yet CNN, MSNBC and others are constantly putting him on TV. And I’ve yet to see him get challenged by anyone. He gets all this free media time to spew his liberal dogma. He’s absolutely fair game.
[doublepost=1519753693][/doublepost]
So I don't understand. Are you jealous? Are you threatened by him wielding power with his words and those that agree with him. What exactly is your issue?

And no - he isn't the one out there (only) attacking with abandon. The right and ardent 2A supporters are definitely doing their best to silence him. To utter failure.
Threatened? Haha that’s funny. No, liberal hacks don’t threaten me.
 

samcraig

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Yet CNN, MSNBC and others are constantly putting him on TV. And I’ve yet to see him get challenged by anyone. He gets all this free media time to spew his liberal dogma. He’s absolutely fair game.
[doublepost=1519753693][/doublepost]
Threatened? Haha that’s funny. No, liberal hacks don’t threaten me.
No offense, but your posts and constant attacks on him tell me and others a different story. But you know best how you feel.
 

ericgtr12

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Mar 19, 2015
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Who said he can't be criticized. But attacking him without abandon isn't productive nor necessary.

I am amused how much this kid has gotten under your skin though.
Yep, I think we all agree his criticism is fair game and IMO he takes it just as well as he dishes it out. Trump could learn something from this kid, I see a bright political future f he so chooses.
 

ThisBougieLife

macrumors 68010
Jan 21, 2016
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No offense, but your posts and constant attacks on him tell me and others a different story. But you know best how you feel.
It really couldn't be more obvious to me.

His arguments are fair game for criticism, as are anyone's arguments. His arguments are not more valid because he experienced a mass shooting. Yet the ironic part is I don't see much of a "challenge" coming from the Right either. They seem to be more interested in conspiracy theories than actually addressing his arguments. They're more interested in coming up with reasons why they shouldn't have to address his arguments in the first place, rather than addressing the actual arguments. In other words, it's a major deflection. Deflect, deny, dismiss. That's political discourse in the 21st century.

If you think his views on gun control are wrong, then explain why they are. Don't say that he appeared in a news segment in L.A. the previous year therefore we can ignore everything he's saying.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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Yep, I think we all agree his criticism is fair game and IMO he takes it just as well as he dishes it out. Trump could learn something from this kid, I see a bright political future f he so chooses.
Who does he take it from? I have yet to see an interview with him where he’s seriously challenged in any way.
[doublepost=1519759264][/doublepost]
No offense, but your posts and constant attacks on him tell me and others a different story. But you know best how you feel.
So anyone that attacks or says anything negative about Trump feels threatened by him? Give me a break.
 

BoxerGT2.5

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2008
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Who said he can't be criticized. But attacking him without abandon isn't productive nor necessary.
Neither is telling people who don't agree with your view that they're "A OK" with dead children, but it doesn't stop some on this board or in the public arena from trying to make that argument.
[doublepost=1519759470][/doublepost]
It’s fair to criticize his arguments, sure, but we also must realize someone his age can’t be expected to have solid principles or have the eloquence and grit to flourish in the spotlight.
Then don't keep put a KID on the air at your news organization and claim they are the new moral leaders on gun control. Don't use them as a political shield for your agenda because the minute someone criticizes them you attack that person for being uncaring towards a child and/or a victim.

Listen, I don't think these kids are any more an authority on gun control as I do survivors of 9/11 on national security. Why the hell they keep putting them on the air is beyond me.
 

samcraig

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Neither is telling people who don't agree with your view that they're "A OK" with dead children, but it doesn't stop some on this board or in the public arena from trying to make that argument.
[doublepost=1519759470][/doublepost]

Then don't keep put a KID on the air at your news organization and claim they are the new moral leaders on gun control. Don't use them as a political shield for your agenda because the minute someone criticizes them you attack that person for being uncaring towards a child and/or a victim.

Listen, I don't think these kids are any more an authority on gun control as I do survivors of 9/11 on national security. Why the hell they keep putting them on the air is beyond me.
Because they are victims.

I think it's pretty obvious. If you were or have been a victim of a crime and had an opinion about it. Wouldn't you like to be able to share that opinion? Don't you think that it's newsworthy? Or are you suggesting that he has no business being on the air at all? He's irrelevant?
 
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haxrnick

macrumors 6502a
Aug 4, 2011
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Because they are victims.

I think it's pretty obvious. If you were or have been a victim of a crime and had an opinion about it. Wouldn't you like to be able to share that opinion? Don't you think that it's newsworthy? Or are you suggesting that he has no business being on the air at all? He's irrelevant?
Well, we have a President that many think this way about. Is it ok for one side but not the other?
 

BoxerGT2.5

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2008
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Because they are victims.

I think it's pretty obvious. If you were or have been a victim of a crime and had an opinion about it. Wouldn't you like to be able to share that opinion? Don't you think that it's newsworthy? Or are you suggesting that he has no business being on the air at all? He's irrelevant?
I'm saying the only thing I'm an expert on at that point in time is suffering. Me being in a car accident doesn't give me any more authority in speaking on highway safety or automobile engineering. Going on the air to tell your story and your recollection of the events is very different from brow beating politicians and hammering away at a political agenda. When said news organization keeps bring the kid back to rinse and repeat, it is no longer about ones opinion. I mean we're all pretty intelligent here to understand the difference.
 

ericgtr12

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Mar 19, 2015
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Who does he take it from? I have yet to see an interview with him where he’s seriously challenged in any way.
[doublepost=1519759264][/doublepost]
So anyone that attacks or says anything negative about Trump feels threatened by him? Give me a break.
His rebuttal to Dana Loesch on ABC This Week was an obvious reaction to what he saw as a personal attack, maybe not directly at him but what he and his classmates stood for. Aside from that, he's got a slippery way of dealing with both sides of the issue and has politician written all over him IMO.
 

samcraig

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I'm saying the only thing I'm an expert on at that point in time is suffering. Me being in a car accident doesn't give me any more authority in speaking on highway safety or automobile engineering. Going on the air to tell your story and your recollection of the events is very different from brow beating politicians and hammering away at a political agenda. When said news organization keeps bring the kid back to rinse and repeat, it is no longer about ones opinion. I mean we're all pretty intelligent here to understand the difference.
Actually I would argue you could and would. I was involved in a bad car accident in High School. While my accident didn't attract the local news, I can say without a doubt that my experience taught be the value of always wearing your seatbelt because had I not JUST put it on, I would not be here. I know this. And the police and medical personal on site stated it quite clearly. So if there was a debate to be had over seatbelt laws/regulations - I would definitely be an advocate.

PS - one cannot escape "political" discussions when the very heart of it is the constitution. By nature, the topic is political.
 

darksithpro

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Oct 27, 2016
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I smell a partisan hack.

Ok, so first this kid defends the officer for not going into the building

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375470-fla-shooting-survivor-cops-dont-want-to-face-down-ar-15s

"A student at the Parkland, Fla., high school where 17 people were killed in a mass shooting last week defended the local officer who did not enter shooting scene.

"He — just like every other police officer out there at heart — is a good person. He didn't take action in this event, and I can't explain why ... there are no words to explain why he wouldn't take action to take out this individual, but I think it's a good example of if he didn't take action and four others didn't, I mean, who does?" student David Hogg said in an interview on MSNBC.

Hogg was referencing Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School resource officer and Broward County Sheriff's deputy who has been the subject of criticism for failing to enter the building and defend students during the shooting.

"Who wants to go down the barrel of an AR-15, even with a glock? And I know that's what these police officers are supposed to do, but they're people too," he added."


Then a few days later he calls for the Republican Governor to be blamed, because the officers didn't enter the building. Talk about hypocrisy!

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/david-hogg-gov-rick-scott-should-be-held-accountable-for-sheriffs-deputies-that-didnt-confront-shooter/

"David Hogg, a survivor of the Parkland, Florida high school shooting, told Morning Joe on Monday that he thinks Gov. Rick Scott should be “held accountable” for the failure of three sheriff’s deputies to confront the gunman.

Law enforcement sources confirmed to news outlets that three deputies from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office remained outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High as the shooter opened fire, eventually killing 17 people.

Hogg, appearing on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, said the news is “raising concern” in his community, before accusing elected officials of attempting the blame the shooting on “bureaucracy.”

“They’re in charge of them,” Hogg said of those elected officials. “This is their fault.”


So, which one is it kid? Flip-flop-flip-flop. The next John Kerry?
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
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I smell a partisan hack.

Ok, so first this kid defends the officer for not going into the building

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375470-fla-shooting-survivor-cops-dont-want-to-face-down-ar-15s

"A student at the Parkland, Fla., high school where 17 people were killed in a mass shooting last week defended the local officer who did not enter shooting scene.

"He — just like every other police officer out there at heart — is a good person. He didn't take action in this event, and I can't explain why ... there are no words to explain why he wouldn't take action to take out this individual, but I think it's a good example of if he didn't take action and four others didn't, I mean, who does?" student David Hogg said in an interview on MSNBC.

Hogg was referencing Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School resource officer and Broward County Sheriff's deputy who has been the subject of criticism for failing to enter the building and defend students during the shooting.

"Who wants to go down the barrel of an AR-15, even with a glock? And I know that's what these police officers are supposed to do, but they're people too," he added."


Then a few days later he calls for the Republican Governor to be blamed, because the officers didn't enter the building. Talk about hypocrisy!

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/david-hogg-gov-rick-scott-should-be-held-accountable-for-sheriffs-deputies-that-didnt-confront-shooter/

"David Hogg, a survivor of the Parkland, Florida high school shooting, told Morning Joe on Monday that he thinks Gov. Rick Scott should be “held accountable” for the failure of three sheriff’s deputies to confront the gunman.

Law enforcement sources confirmed to news outlets that three deputies from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office remained outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High as the shooter opened fire, eventually killing 17 people.

Hogg, appearing on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, said the news is “raising concern” in his community, before accusing elected officials of attempting the blame the shooting on “bureaucracy.”

“They’re in charge of them,” Hogg said of those elected officials. “This is their fault.”


So, which one is it kid? Flip-flop-flip-flop. The next John Kerry?

If only we could apply your sense of political "hack"ness of a 17 year old to the rest of congress and the President.
 

ericgtr12

macrumors 65816
Mar 19, 2015
1,236
7,276
I smell a partisan hack.

Ok, so first this kid defends the officer for not going into the building

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375470-fla-shooting-survivor-cops-dont-want-to-face-down-ar-15s

"A student at the Parkland, Fla., high school where 17 people were killed in a mass shooting last week defended the local officer who did not enter shooting scene.

"He — just like every other police officer out there at heart — is a good person. He didn't take action in this event, and I can't explain why ... there are no words to explain why he wouldn't take action to take out this individual, but I think it's a good example of if he didn't take action and four others didn't, I mean, who does?" student David Hogg said in an interview on MSNBC.

Hogg was referencing Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School resource officer and Broward County Sheriff's deputy who has been the subject of criticism for failing to enter the building and defend students during the shooting.

"Who wants to go down the barrel of an AR-15, even with a glock? And I know that's what these police officers are supposed to do, but they're people too," he added."


Then a few days later he calls for the Republican Governor to be blamed, because the officers didn't enter the building. Talk about hypocrisy!

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/david-hogg-gov-rick-scott-should-be-held-accountable-for-sheriffs-deputies-that-didnt-confront-shooter/

"David Hogg, a survivor of the Parkland, Florida high school shooting, told Morning Joe on Monday that he thinks Gov. Rick Scott should be “held accountable” for the failure of three sheriff’s deputies to confront the gunman.

Law enforcement sources confirmed to news outlets that three deputies from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office remained outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High as the shooter opened fire, eventually killing 17 people.

Hogg, appearing on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, said the news is “raising concern” in his community, before accusing elected officials of attempting the blame the shooting on “bureaucracy.”

“They’re in charge of them,” Hogg said of those elected officials. “This is their fault.”


So, which one is it kid? Flip-flop-flip-flop. The next John Kerry?
I agree that he's a political hack, then so is Hannity, Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, etc. In the end, he's just not your kind of political hack. ;)
 

samcraig

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Jun 22, 2009
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I agree with you. It would be like someone starting three Trump threads a day then claiming Trump doesn't get under his skin or that they aren't jealous of him. The proof is in the quantity.
Not jealous of Trump and his exposure. But does Trump get under my skin - absolutely. Never said otherwise. But your softened personal attack/snark is noted.
 
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hulugu

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We should remember that unlike reality show stars, David Hogg was thrust into the limelight by a terrible crime. Sure his arguments can be criticized, but most of the right-wing arguments are direct or veiled ad hominems ranging from the very stupid idea that he's a "crisis actor" to the less stupid idea that he's too young to make a political argument.

Hogg is angry and wants action, and the Florida political structure refused to deal with gun violence, but made sure to talk about pornography as a public health crisis.

I'm not particularly surprised that he's not Demosthenes, but for anyone paying attention to this nation's political arguments, it's clear that Demosthenes is an old dead dude.