Debt Commission: Panel Weighs Deep Cuts in Tax Breaks and Spending

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    GOP, pay attention:
    NYT

    There are 10 Democrats and 8 Republicans on the bi-partisan panel, and any recommendation would require 14 votes. Anyone want to bet on whether any of the republicans on the panel will vote for the recommendation?
     
  2. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #2
    My guess is no one will like the proposal... There will be certain things each side likes, and certain things each side hates.

    U.S. Debt Proposal Would Cut Social Security, Medicare


     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    This has to be done. It's responsible and we can accomplish it.
     
  4. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #4
    Agreed...no one should be happy this has to be done or with what the outcome is, but it does have to be done. And we'll need a mix of tax increases(or just letting the current cuts run out) and some spending cuts.

    Although I do like the idea of waiting for 2010, so the economy can grow. Although if growth is slow, it might be risky for Obama.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    Unless Republicans can tell us how those cuts are paid for, they expire- period. We cannot afford more debt. I know they love borrow and spend, but we can't afford it anymore.
     
  6. Thomas Veil, Nov 10, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010

    Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #6
    Link

    Right now the amount you're taxed on for SS and Medicare is capped at $106,800. Any honest adjustments to those programs would begin with removing the cap and adjusting the withholding, not with keeping us working until the day we die.

    Of course, they're not going to do it; probably not even going to bring it up for discussion.

    And from the perpetually angry Tea Party, I expect we'll hear crickets.
     
  7. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #7
    It sucks that Reagan, Bush and GW Bush conspired to put us into this mess, but hey, I'm ready, willing and able to do my part so that my children and grandchildren aren't paying for the deficits and resulting debt fiscal conservatives created.

    Hey Reagan, you didn't beat the USSR, you just spent us into oblivion so we now live in a state of perpetual borrowing. Thanks!

    Before anyone suggests that both sides played the spending game during the years Reagan, Bush and GW Bush were in office, I have to point out that it was not just spending that got us into trouble. It was the combination of lowering taxes (and reducing revenue), while at the same time encouraging businesses to send jobs and manufacturing overseas (reducing revenue), and of course, dramatically increasing spending on the military.
     
  8. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #8
    Certainly the federal government can do more to streamline itself.

    1: Military - fewer wars of choice.
    2: Diplomacy - stop "buying" friends. Nations like Israel can afford their own weapons.
    3: Government benefits - No more free health care for our so called "representatives". Pro-rate retirement packages instead of the absurdly generous benefits.

    It would be nice to see the US invest in itself and well-being of its citizens.
     
  9. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #9
    So, employees who get paid less than their counterparts in the private sector, and who have negotiated good benefits, should give up those benefits so you can save 1/10,000 of a penny on your taxes?

    Yes, government workers get paid less than their counterparts in private sector. You can't compare the average government worker to the average private sector worker because there really aren't very many part-time, minimum wage jobs in government.

    By way of example, anyone care to guess what an attorney in Chicago makes compared to an attorney in Chicago who works for the government?
     
  10. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #10
    I don't see why a person that serves in congress for one term should be entitled to a lifetime pension of around $45,000/year. I don't see why they should get free health care when they deny it for the rest of us. I'm not saying they should get nothing, but it should be somehow pro-rated. Likewise, it is a career path they choose knowing that perhaps it will be less pay. Do you really think someone runs for president because they love america so much that they want a pay cut in exchange for some free health care?
     
  11. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #11
    The problem is bigger that most realize. 111 Trillion in unfunded liabilities for starters. This solution seems like small potatoes to me. I think we're going to have to do things which are a bit more drastically to truly get out of this mess:

    • I'd start by bringing thousands of troops home from abroad and cutting national defense in half. I believe a more defensive posture would keep us just as safe, but would save TRILLIONS of dollars. We need to return to a more non-interventionist foreign policy
    • I'd end all types of corporatism, and subsidies, to let the free market determine which technologies should succeed. The biggest boon to corporatism is big government which can dole out money and competition-killing regulations to prop up big business.
    • I'd end the war on drugs. Doing so would free up billions of dollars spent enforcing and incarcerating criminals who did nothing more than have a little weed on them. It would also completely wipe out the drug cartels much in the same way ending prohibition wiped out the 1920's gangs in America.
    • Over time, I'd make steps to eliminate the federalized Social Security ponzi scheme, Medicare, Medicaid, and drastically reinvent welfare to make getting participants off of the system ASAP the top priority. Such would require a return to a larger role from private secular and religious charity organizations, and neighbors to take a more active role in their local communities. If these programs continue to exist, they should exist at the state level where individual states can determine where/how best to spend the money based on their own unique/local problems.
    • I'd allow states to control the education system per the constitution so that costs could be better maintained and variability would return to the system and competition would grow. Federalizing the system has proven to be incredibly expensive. States should experiment with all sorts of alternatives including privatization, vouchers, etc. to see what works best for their area.
    • I sure as heck wouldn't even CONSIDER a government takeover of 1/6th of the economy and working towards nationalized healthcare! We're trillions in debt as it is, very soon... we won't even be able to handle the interest on our debt. If individual states want to give it a try (Mass.) go ahead, but its unconstitutional for the federal government to do so.
    • I'd push us towards a Austrian economic system and return us to something more similar to the gold standard to do away with once and for all government manipulation of the fiat dollar. Restore fiscal sanity to our markets, and ensure all business has a sure footing in this country without worrying about the government picking winners and losers.
    • In short, I'd return to a smaller, more constitutional Federal Government. One that protects liberty, creates wealth, and lets us keep more of the wealth we earn.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    111 Trillion dollars? :confused:

    Isn't that more money than even exists on the planet right now?

    I'm trying to look at your debt clock but its so full of flash I'm having a hard time loading the damn page.
     
  13. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #13
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/pensions.asp

    First of all, you have to serve 5 years to get any pension at all, and to get up to 45k per year, much more than 5.
     
  14. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #14
    Try it on another computer if you can... it's worth it. Probably the most frightening/important site on the web today. Well, keep in mind that those are numbers from the CBO which is generally quite conservative on their outlook... so it's probably much worse than that. What are unfunded liablities? Here's how Richard Fisher, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas explains it:

     
  15. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #15
    I don't disagree with you entirely (for once). However these are overly simplistic solutions.

    1: I totally agree that the military adventurism needs to end.
    2: I totally agree that the war on drugs needs a different strategy. Legalization and regulation (oh no, the guberment!) is a better way forward.
    3: Corporate welfare should not be ended entirely. Basic research should continue to be funded because it is not profitable and therefore would curtail advancement. Likewise, some things require some momentum behind them. The transition from fossil fuels to something else will not be easy without some help.
    4: National Healthcare is not the devil you seem to think it might be. A singular service rather than the current "ponzi scheme" would certainly be more efficient than what we have. Likewise, some things should not be done for profit because the incentive for "curing" is replaced with incentive to "treat" over a lifetime.
    5: It isn't bad to have a national standard but I agree, states should be permitted to manage education.
    6: Perhaps the government is too big, but it is a big job. How small do you think it should be? Should the national highway system be a privatized? How about the military?
     
  16. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #16

    While we need to make some big, big changes, what would you do with the millions of unemployed your cuts above would cause?
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #17
    Can you please link me to the 111 Trillion number? :confused:
     
  18. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

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    #18
    Massive tax cuts for the rich, there's a surprise.
     
  19. Sedulous, Nov 10, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010

    Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #19
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #21
    Haven't you heard of trickle down economics? All those tax savings will be used to hire more people, it is a fackt!
     
  22. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #22
    I found links to about a half dozen right-wing extremist websites, but nothing official that supports that claim. I'm still looking.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    I don't think that amount even exists on the planet, nor could I think of ANYTHING that could cost that much money. I'm still trying to find something on this...
     
  24. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #24
    And here's part of the problem... people are unwilling to even listen to the truth about how bad things are. Nt1440 is just asking a question, but Mcrain thinks its some massive conservative conspiracy. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]

    http://gao.gov/financial/fy2009/09frusg.pdf

    Flip to page 178 of this US Treasury report for 2009. They report 107 Trillion on unfunded liabilities.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    UK
    #25
    $107 trillion over infinity years.

    Infinity is a long time...
     

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