Deficit is shrinking at record pace

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, May 15, 2013.

  1. mcrain, May 15, 2013
    Last edited: May 15, 2013

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    [​IMG]

    So, higher taxes work, we didn't need to destroy our economy with ridiculous austerity measures, Obamacare seems to be doing what it is supposed to do, and maybe we can finally stop listening to Republicans bemoan years of deficit spending despite the deficit policies they enacted.
     
  2. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #2
    In before "false statistics" claims.

    In all seriousness, the majority of some really successful European Union countries right now have very high taxes and a nice social model of government. And it's working quite well.
     
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #3
    I personally think this whole focus on the deficit is a ruse, as it historically has been, to pressure the country to gut the social contract.

    If we grew the economy instead of strangling it with austerity (what states are practicing as a result of the gutted federal funding) then the debt shrinks in comparison to the economy itself.
     
  4. tshrimp, May 15, 2013
    Last edited: May 15, 2013

    tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    LOL. Funny stuff. Is Europe really known for its current financial success? :)

    Spain and Greece are currently a Utopia.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    No, several countries are in a double dip recession due to the effects of hysterical austerity. That isn't hard to see.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    When you double and triple the deficits its rather easy to break records.

    Its like eating 100 hot dogs a day and then cutting back to 50 to lose weight.

    Also I don't really care about projections as much as actual deficits.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    lol source?
     
  8. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    Huh, it's almost as if we were recovering from the greatest economic disaster in a century. Of course deficits are going to skyrocket given that tax revenues took a nose-dive and gov expenditures went up to prop up the economy...

    But so what? You lean on debt during the bad times, and pay it back during the good times. Unfortunately, Bush ran up the credit card during good times...whoops!

    Maybe you should also include a chart that shows the Dow Jones when Bush left office (8,000) and what it's gone up to under Obama (15,250).
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    You can post those charts if you want to, I thought we were talking about the deficit though.

    You seem to be taking these numbers rather personally.
     
  10. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #10
    You are clearly taking the wrong message from this. Clearly we didn't cut the super-rich's taxes sufficiently. -- "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail."
     
  11. mcrain, May 15, 2013
    Last edited: May 15, 2013

    mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Well, that's a cute chart, but the highest budget we have ever had was a result of the economic collapse that resulted from the Bush administration policies. In addition, the fiscal year budget was passed and signed GWB. Not Obama. Obama has done NOTHING but reduce the budget from the historically high level of the Bush administration, all while maintaining the necessary funding to keep the economy from collapsing.

    The deficit isn't just a way of saying how much we spend, but a comparison to how much we spend versus what we bring in. Bush destroyed what we bring in, and it still hasn't fully recovered. President Obama hasn't increased spending in any crazy way compared to his predecessor. He did include the wars in the budget (which Bush kept off budget, so his numbers are artificially low anyway).

    I think the budget deficit is too high, but the fastest way to fix that is to raise revenue and then turn around and pump the increased revenue into the parts of the economy that result in the highest multiplier of economic activity.

    A better chart - [​IMG]
    Note the green is a bush fiscal year. [​IMG]
    Taxes are way too low - [​IMG]
    The Bush tax cuts are killing us - [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #12
    Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, etc.
     
  13. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #13
    The motto of the super rich! ;)
     
  14. DesterWallaboo macrumors 6502

    DesterWallaboo

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    Somehow I don't think posting a chart and data from Rachel Maddow consists as 'evidence'.
     
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #15
    I see alot of Bush blaming but Clinton's administration was the one that allowed the crisis with the banks to form, Bush just didn't do anything to stop it. In fact the democrats are the ones who blocked any review of the way the loans were being shoveled out left and right right by the banks during Bush's term. Probably because they were getting a little kickback and the people getting the loans were the ones who couldn't afford them.
     
  16. mcrain, May 15, 2013
    Last edited: May 15, 2013

    mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #16
    Seeing as anyone can go to google news or any other news site and see the deficit reduction is as stated, you are just wrong. The evidence is there even if you don't like the particular site I used (they had a nice chart).

    I'll tell you what. Do you have any "evidence" that the budget deficit isn't in fact shrinking at the rate, or to the level claimed? If not, would it be fair to say you're upset that Democrats are once again proving that they are the party that is fiscally responsible? Boo hoo... :(

    Do you have a source for that? The Bush administration changed some policies and stopped enforcing others that Clinton put into effect. Those policies didn't lead to a collapse under Clinton. It wasn't until the Bush policies were implemented that the economy collapsed.

    From FactCheck.org
     
  17. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Maybe it's something else?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323744604578470854133735018.html
     
  18. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    I didn't know Rachel Maddow worked for the Congressional Budget Office and the Washington Post.
     
  19. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Let's not forget the elephant in the room where according to GAAP, the deficit actually GREW $6T because of entitlement obligations:

    From the US Treasury:
    2012 Financial Report of the United States Government - http://fms.treas.gov/fr/12frusg/12stmt.pdf
    Summary:
    Income Statement
    Revenue = 2,518.2 B
    Expenses = 3,814.3 B
    Surplus (Deficit) = (1,316.3) B, does not include increase in present value of Entitlements
    Change in present value of future expenditures in excess of projected future revenue = (4,724) B
    Total Surplus (Deficit) = (6,040.3) B that is an actual deficit of $6 Trillion

    It will probably be worse in 2013. I don't blame Obama for this or even Bush. This has been going for a long time.

    But I'm certainly not going to celebrate the cash deficit shrinking while the real deficit is still growing.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Giving you just one up-vote didn't seem quite good enough.

    You hit the nail on the head.

    ZombieAcorn's analogy is counter to reality. This isn't about government becoming fat on bananas. This is about wealth being taken away. Trillions of dollars ... I mean bananas ... were lost in the Great Recession and through Bush tax policies.

    Yet despite the odds: a wrecked economy, reduced revenue, and two wars to account for, Obama still reduced the deficit.

    Even ZA's chart agrees with that.
     
  21. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #21
    Cameron has major egg on his face and the LibDems are in official disrepute now that the UK is an official double dipper. Merkel's and To be honest, Schroeder's austerity have been great for the German economy but disastrous for the low end German worker. Spain and Greece and Portugal and Ireland have paid the price for their corruption and spendthrift ways but their only salvation is to gut their guaranteed employment for life and accept real world wages and bennies.

    Mexico also needs major employment reform if it is to continue to enjoy prosperity.


    I'd be interested to see how much the bush/Cheney wars added to future indebtedness.
     
  22. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    We know it was around $1T. Still small potatoes compared to the unfunded liabilities that are the entitlements.
     
  23. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    "We" know? Care to provide a source?
     
  24. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #24
  25. maxosx macrumors 68020

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    #25
    It's all smoke and mirrors.

    P loves to spend, and does so with alacrity.
     

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