Democrats "feeling the Bern"?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jonblatho, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. jonblatho macrumors 6502

    jonblatho

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Location:
    Oklahoma/Missouri
    #1
    So perhaps Hillary's nomination isn't quite as guaranteed as previously thought.

    I distinctly remember Hillary seeming like a sure bet for 2008 as well until this largely unknown senator from Illinois named Barack Obama soared past her and grabbed the nomination out from under her, ultimately winning the presidency.

    Here we are eight years later...this time, Bernie is surging in the polls beneath Hillary. He's shattered the record for largest attendance at any 2016 candidate's event so far, and his message seems to resound well with the average voter in the Democratic Party. He seems to be mobilizing people who gave up on the political process.

    Personally, as one who leans a bit closer to Bernie's views than Hillary's, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Hillary winds up blowing this campaign, too. She has a lot of vulnerability in letting the press write the narrative of her campaign and the pseudo-scandals over emails and Benghazi. Her message effectively strikes me as "I'm running for President!" while Bernie has a clear-cut and consistent set of views for people to research.

    So how long do we expect Bernie's surge to continue? Will it topple Hillary for America, or will it die out before that point? And if he does get the nomination—how is he going to stack up against whoever wins out of the Republican clown car of a primary?
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #2
    Bernie Sanders is an older and crazier-looking version of Howard Dean. He gets the base all riled up and the media loves him but when it comes to Democratic primary voters actually voting for him, no way Jose. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's in the race but Hillary will be the nominee.
     
  3. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    #3
    Bernie is really old. That's gonna be his Achilles heal.
     
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #4
    WE have an American Idol population, old & sound is beat by young & dumb that can sing & dance . :mad: the level of stupid in this country is too damn high.
     
  5. jonblatho thread starter macrumors 6502

    jonblatho

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Location:
    Oklahoma/Missouri
    #5
    Famous words from 2008… ;)

    Nonetheless, I'm not nearly ready to bet against him yet. I'd like to see what happens in the polls over the next several weeks and then make a judgment as to whether supporting him is utterly insane, but honestly, he seems to be killing it right now.

    Also, I thought the media hated Bernie. Most outlets I've seen are still treating him much like they treat Donald Trump—as a complete joke. In terms of experience, voting record, etc. (things that actually matter, not age or appearance), Bernie has a lot of high ground over Hillary, and I suspect he'll need to start pushing that.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #6
    Warren needs to get off her butt & make it a Sanders/Warren or Warren/Sanders ticket.
     
  7. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #7
    What outlets are those? Everything I read about him in the MSM seems like ordinary coverage. The guy's a U.S. Senator and has been in Congress for something like thirty years, so it's not like he's some upstart who came out nowhere.
     
  8. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #8
    He's going to be dogged by his self-imposed "Socialist" label if he wins the nomination.

    But he'd make one hell of a good President.
     
  9. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    #9
    It's not that. He's like, REALLY old. He'll be 75 in November of 2016. I'd be worried that he'll croak in office. Look how much the stress of presidency has aged Obama, and Bernie has a 30 year head start on him. I don't think he'll survive even one term as president. If he were at least 10 years younger, then maybe.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #10
    Hillary is 67.

    a bit from Bernie
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-gun-control/index.html

    how old is JSM? he still messing things up.
     
  11. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    #11
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #12
    McCain is about 79 right now & still going.
    Clinton already sold out the future of your kids & mine .
    http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm

    Clinton has no problem with war.

    YOU are voting for "age", I am looking for someone that represents me.
     
  13. jonblatho thread starter macrumors 6502

    jonblatho

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Location:
    Oklahoma/Missouri
    #13
    If absolutely nothing else, even those who don't agree with his politics seem to appreciate that he says what he means and means what he says. I've never heard him talk like a politician—if he doesn't have an answer for you, he'll say so and get back with you when he does. Even his relatively vague statements on gun control are concise. Effectively: "We need to change our gun laws, but in doing so, we also must respect tradition and culture. That's where the conversation needs to be, and the two sides of this debate are too far from the middle."

    I know The New York Times is hostile toward Bernie, as I've seen multiple articles from them that are either directly disparaging his candidacy or implying hostility. I'm sure they're not the only outlet.
     
  14. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #14
    Warren will never run.

    I can see a Clinton/Sanders ticket, though.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #15
    thanks for making me puke.
     
  16. jonblatho thread starter macrumors 6502

    jonblatho

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Location:
    Oklahoma/Missouri
    #16
    I can't imagine Bernie willing to politically submit to Hillary like that. The vice presidency is generally worthless.
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #17
    I love it that Bernie Sanders pulled in 10k fans at a rally on Scott Walker's turf. There's a message there for Hillary, yes, but there's also a message for the GOP.

    Will not be able to bring myself to vote for Clinton. So scripted, so much baggage, so corporatist, such a lightning rod for... i was going to say "hatred from the GOP" but really my concern is an instant GOP drive to impeach her (for whatever, for having two boxes of paper clips in her desk instead of one), and having Bill in the White House again with his dubious rolodex, I dunno, it just sounds so awful to me.

    I'm pretty cynical about US politics but I'm usually also a lot more optimistic and enthusiastic than I am right now when I look at the possibilities. I think Bernie Sanders is great, but agree that he probably could not take the stress of the office. It has aged Obama terribly. The office asks too much of even a young person now. Hillary Clinton is, I think, too old for it. I want to be excited about 2016 (and in some respects I am; the Congressional races will be a lot of fun to watch and the Senate could even revert to Dem majority).

    But the presidential race, wow. Both parties need a better bench. The extreme partisanship and nasty tone that used to fade after elections is 24/7 permanent during governance now. It has to be something that potential candidates think about before they decide to get in. I think it deters some good people from running. They just don't want the abuse. The campaigns are a blood sport conducted by operatives and the media. The outcome seems pretty much determined by the moneybags and the rest of us are just spectators, yet we're supposed to be the boss!

    If it comes down to Jeb Bush v. Hillary Clinton, I think Bush will win it. She better hope the GOP right will not support his nomination. None of my wondering helps me figure out what to do at the polls. I certainly cannot vote for a Republican and I can't vote for Clinton either, I just won't do it. Maybe if I lived in a swing state I could make myself do it but I live in New York and barring some cataclysmic event, the state will go for the Dem. I have never withheld a vote in a presidential ballot. I'm thinking about it, but I don't want to contribute to one of those nightmare scenarios where the popular vote and electoral vote don't support the same winner.
     
  18. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #18
    Just make sure that if you vote for him that he has a good vice president that you also think will represent you, I doubt he'd be able to make it through one term with the stress of the office.
     
  19. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #19
    Maybe.

    But sometimes the vice presidential ticket is awarded as much for expediency as it is idealism. If Hillary thinks it'll draw in the progressive & millenium voters, she might consider it. And if Bernie went along, it would be so that he can nudge her toward more progressive policies.

    Cheney certainly did it, in the opposite direction, with Bush.
     
  20. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #20
    Prediction: Hillary's VP pick will be a Hispanic male and the GOP VP pick will be a Hispanic female.
     
  21. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
  22. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Location:
    North Country (way upstate NY)
    #22
    http://www.alternet.org/election-20...rs-beating-scott-walker-donald-trump-jeb-bush

    Latest National Poll Shows Bernie Sanders Beating Scott Walker, Donald Trump, Jeb Bush



    The actual poll
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2179399-cnn-orc-poll-2016-election-9-a-m-july-26-2015.html

     
  23. Lennyvalentin, Jul 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015

    Lennyvalentin macrumors 6502a

    Lennyvalentin

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    #23
    Not an American here, so I don't really have a horse in this race (it's still really interesting to talk about tho! :D ...And not just because the U.S. has such a great influence on the rest of the world as well.) Anyway, I must commend you for having written such a great short summary of current state of affairs in U.S. politics. It's such a poisoned viper's pit, I don't even understand how it got to that point. The rethoric has been increasingly toxic and hyperbolic ever since Bush I left office, and now it's not even at a stratospheric level, we're somewhere out amongst the moons of Jupiter it feels like... :p

    Also, regarding Bill - in the event she gets elected, I think Hillary better lift the door to his new office off its hinges, lest she gets another surprise repeat of history, lol! ;)


    It aged Bush II terribly too, as well as Bill Clinton. Reagan seemed to handle it with panache though somehow even though he too was old as hell, although he was already going senile by then of course so maybe that helped, heh.

    The current climate in american politics is truly unhealthy for democracy, not just because it must surely dissuade many people from even seeking political office (meaning decent, uncorrupt people, unlike say, the Trumpster for example, whom is certainly a narcissist and sociopath, whom you really don't want in any position of power); there is also all the lying that's going on. Outright, blatant, stone-cold lying. Just...totally lying your own pants off, without any shame whatsoever, making the worst kind of nonsense character assassination garbage up for no other reason than to make the person on the other side look awful.

    It's a deliberate tactic of course - you get less, or possibly no time at all - to get your own message out if you're constantly bombarded with negative information which you need to refute. It's a method so low nobody should ever stoop to it.

    That would never fly where I'm from. The lies I've seen from some U.S. members of the house would have forced them out of office pretty much immediately from around here. Their words would have haunted them from every front page and their colleagues would have turned their backs one by one until they'd resign. But in America, media either don't seem to give a s***, or else they're actively lapping it up and re-reporting it. The public seem mostly apathic, and seem consigned to just believe whatever "their" side says as the truth. Few, if anyone seem to question their own side, they generally just condemn the other side, adding to the increasing polarization of society.

    This really is not healthy in a democracy (or democratic republic, or whatever... You know what I mean! lol)

    Like... Would the average U.S. voter really prefer if their side won by default? Ruled unchallenged, perhaps in perpetuity? You'd think most people would remember the old saying, "the only thing worse than two political parties, is ONE political party"... Listening to the rethoric though - and mostly coming from the repugnican camp I think it's safe to say, it appears not too many are too concerned about this!

    If Clinton gets the dem. nomination, you're going to have to decide what is the lesser of three evils: making a stand by voting for one candidate, voting for the other candidate, or just passively standing there, watching as Rome burns.

    I've been forced to vote for political parties I didn't really agree with as well in my day (been voting since 1990 IIRC), just because voting for the alternative would have been worse. Not voting at all though - never. You'll pry my right to vote from my cold, dead hands...!
     
  24. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
  25. Lennyvalentin macrumors 6502a

    Lennyvalentin

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    #25
    Only if he wants to annihilate any chance of getting himself elected.

    Without the resources of the democratic party he won't get anywhere, not even to the november election itself.
     

Share This Page