Dems lining up to skip Netanyahu

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #1
    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/232065-dems-lining-up-to-skip-netanyahu-speech

    good for them, hope some republicans boycott as well.
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #2
    On the other hand, the GOP will be lining-up to grovel and scrape at their paymasters feet.
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #3
    A head of state should be received with their due respect regardless of the shenanigans involved in bringing them to the country.

    If Dems boycott, then shame on them for engaging in even more partisan stupidity than the Republicans started by inviting him here.
     
  4. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Location:
    Universe 0 Timeline
    #4
  5. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #5
    NOT the right time
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #6
    Because it violates a very sound principle of foreign relations between allies:

    We don't interfere in their internal politics; and they don't interfere in ours.

    Netanyahu goes before the Israeli electorate two weeks after the scheduled speech. It is pretty much unprecedented to have a foreign leader speak before Congress that close to a national election, and could give the impression that the United States "endorses" Netanyahu and his Likud party over other Israeli parties. We don't do that.

    Netanyahu has also attempted to interfere in US domestic politics, and his speech - which is expected to condemn the Obama administration's efforts to find a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear program - does in no way have bi-partisan support.

    Netanyahu wants a war with Iran - but he wants the United States to do the actual fighting. That - to me - is an intolerable act on the behalf of a supposed ally.
     
  7. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #7
    Heads of state should visit upon the invitation of another head of state. Bibi isn't coming to address the U.N. or an economic conference; he coming to our capital to address the United States Congress.

    And to interfere with our foreign policy, I might add.

    How would he like it if Obama appeared before the Knesset upon the invitation of Bibi's political enemies?
     
  8. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #8
    My understanding is the Boehner violated international diplomatic protocols by not coordinating this the White House. Now just imagine if it was the other way around, with a Republican President, (if we will see another one of those), the GOP would be going ape s***.
     
  9. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #9
    What is our current foreign policy?
     
  10. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #10
    The bold is a very good point. The Speaker of the House completely leapfrogged over the Administrative Branch, and its #1 Diplomat (Secretary of State) in doing this. If anyone is in violation of anything here, it would be Boehner. yes, there are no 'rules' regarding this per se, but Boehner definitely did step his foot in where it didn't belong, and he sure as hell is no diplomat.

    BL.
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #11
    And quite right too.
     
  12. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Location:
    Universe 0 Timeline
    #12
    Why do we care what Netanyahu does to get reelected? Are you saying he has no other reason for coming here?

    That's silly. He speaks before Congress, then goes home. I realize that we're the last remaining Super Power, but I doubt Israelis care what pols in the US think.

    Anyway, who would be "endorsing" Netanyahu? Republicans? Obama?

    Granted, Republican endorsement might have some weight, but Obama's endorsement would be the kiss of death (at least it has been for Democrats in the USA).

    So he comes here to make a speech. He can agree with what we're doing in our negotiations or disagree. Since he's an ally, we owe him the chance to speak.

    It's the American people Obama needs to worry about. If the negotiations with Iran result in a fair deal, Congress will support him. If it's another instance of the US taking it on the chin (as was the case with Obama's Global Warming negotiations with China), it won't matter what Netanyahu says.

    Everybody wants us to do their fighting for them because we're better at it than anybody else. Also, that's what happens when you're the world's remaining SP (see WWI, WWII, Korean war, etc.). So the question will be whether it's in our interest to throw down one of the remaining members of the Axis of Evil.
     
  13. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Location:
    Universe 0 Timeline
    #13
    Do you think negotiations with Iran will result in anything other than the Iranians possessing nukes no matter what they promise on paper?

    If it hadn't been for some brilliant undermining of their nuclear program by the US and Israelis delaying Iran's uranium enrichment efforts, Iran might already have nukes.
     
  14. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #14
    Image is everything here. Netanyahu coming here and speaking here gives off the image that we, the USA and the people of the USA, support everything that he is doing in Israel, including the bombing of people in Gaza, the Occupation of the West Bank, and all of the settlements that they are putting together.

    Boehner just handed him center stage of the political theater to speak his mind, and makes us look like his pawns in doing so. We are being made out to look like the proverbial bad guy by supporting a proverbial bad guy, and now, we are the supporting actors in Netanyahu's show.

    Why you are acting oblivious to that, we do not know.

    BL.
     
  15. Technarchy, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015

    Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #15
    The President should have the Speaker detained for suspicion of violating the Logan Act.

     
  16. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #16
    Very VERY interesting. However, I wonder how much the Reds would cry foul if something like this happened.

    BL.
     
  17. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Location:
    Universe 0 Timeline
    #17
    That's ridiculous. Just because you say it's so don't make it so.

    Obama gave a state of the union address before Congress, so does that mean all Americans support everything he's doing? Of course not.

    Again, why is it Libs are so frightened by people speaking their minds? If Netanyahu makes good points that undermine Obama, it works to our benefit if we avoid a badly done deal. Obama's never been very good at negotiating anyway (remember his "Don't call my bluff!" threat?).

    Again with the "we"? Do you have a split personality or fancy yourself to be a world leader?
     
  18. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #18
    Pretty clear to me the Israelis and Boehner cooked this sup to pressure Obama to enact new sanctions against Iran and/or stop/slow down negotiations. Bonus for Boehner, make the President look bad. Seems it's backfiring on them.
     
  19. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #19
    You still don't get it. It isn't the fact that Netanyahu is speaking his mind; the problem is WHERE he is speaking his mind. He is speaking his mind on our land, in our government's chambers, at the request of one person who is not part of the Administrative branch of our government. Because he is doing that, and the fact that that person has asked the entire Congress to assemble for it, makes us look to the world like we are supporting Netanyahu and what he is speaking. We are being made out to be his backdrop of support to his cause.

    Much like how Obama and Bush would have troops sitting behind them while making speeches to make it look like they support their causes, Netanyahu is using Congress to make it look like they, and to that extent, we (the people who voted them in) support his cause. IF we wanted something like that, he should have used his own government to do so.

    Instead, he's played Boehner into make us look like we support him and everything he has done over the past year.

    Do you? Do you support the bombings in Gaza? The settlements? The occupation of the West Bank? Where do you stand? Because in your implicit compliance in Netanyahu speaking, you implicitly support him in his actions, as well as Boehner in inviting him over.

    BL.
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #20
    We don't care (within reason) what Netanyahu does in his own country to get re-elected. But by inviting him to speak before Congress two weeks before the Israeli election, John Boehner is effectively interfering in internal Israeli politics. And by speaking on a contentious issue before the Congress (the Iran diplomatic effort) Netanyahu is essentially interfering in our business.

    This violates a principle of international relations going back to the Peace of Westfalia in 1646, which ended the Thirty Years War, and which established the idea of National Sovereignty: A nation is sovereign over its own people. And that country A has no right to tell country B how it treats its citizens. And country C has no right to tell the citizens of country D how they ought to vote, or who they should elect as their leader.
     
  21. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto
    #21
  22. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #22
    The USA has nukes. Pakistan has nukes. North Korea has nukes. Israel has nukes.

    Iran will get nukes eventually and there is nothing we can do about that short of invading and occupying the entire country. Which, of course, isn't going to happen. Best learn to deal with that.
     
  23. JamesMike macrumors demi-god

    JamesMike

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Location:
    Oregon
    #23
    I would think he is going to speak a lot about Iran's nuclear program, with information on their latest development of their intercontinental ballistic missile program. Why do you develop ICBMs, if you don't have plans for a nuke?
     
  24. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #24
    Who cares? Their country/their problem
     
  25. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #25
    That is far from certain.

    The US intelligence community has concluded, with a fairly high degree of certainty, that Iran so far HAS NOT made the decision to complete a nuclear weapon.

    And that is the point of the current international negotiations with Iran: We want to prevent Iran from either building a nuclear weapon, or from maintaining the capability of building one. Iran maintains its right, under existing international law, to maintain nuclear facilities for peaceful purposes. And based on some past incidents, there is a high degree of suspicion and animosity on both sides.

    If the Iranian mullahs learned anything from the US invasion of Iraq; and the overthrow of Muamar Khadafi, is that not having a nuclear capability puts you at a distinct disadvantage. I'm sorry, but that is the way they see things, and its hard to argue with that logic.

    Countering that, there is a strong desire on very large parts of the Iranian population; business community; and Government to end the regime of sanctions and isolation that has all but crippled the country.

    There is therefore an opportunity to seek a peaceful end to Iran's nuclear ambitions, as well as to normalize relations with one of the largest Muslim (but not Arab) countries in the world. A country with a long history of friendship with the United States.

    Bibi Netanyahu wants to scuttle this effort. Normalized relations between Iran and the rest of the world would seriously diminish Israel's status in the region as a US ally. But Israel itself is technologically and militarily incapable of destroying Iran's nuclear infrastructure. The only military capable of doing so is the United States'.

    We've had more than a decade of failed invasions in the middle east. Adding Iran to the list of countries we have attacked would - for a generation at least - end any possibility of the Arab or Muslim world seeing the United States as a good faith negotiator.

    We have to give the five-nation talks with Iran have every chance to succeed. Diplomacy at this level is not a process that can be rushed. And under no circumstances can we let Israel's domestic politics force us into an armed conflict that has every chance of becoming a social, humanitarian, and political disaster.

    Much as I admire and support Israel, we simply cannot let them drive our Foreign Policy decision making.
     

Share This Page