Dems set war bill without Iraq timeline

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, May 21, 2007.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    AP

    well, that's disappointing. now those who voted dems into power can be pissed, and those on the right will sing their oft-repeated "dems have no backbone" song.

    and come september, all the GOP congresspeople who said "there'd better be progress by september or else" will have all but forgotten that, and bush will ask for Yet Another Clean Emergency Spending Bill and we'll start this all over again, except the dems won't have any threat of brinksmanship to wield.

    this was the dems one and only chance to do it right, and they're apparently blowing it.

    Score (0) : ****tards
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Watch their poll numbers go completely down the crapper! A**holes! I'm writing a lot of letters tonight- a particularly scathing few to Durbin and Obama. :mad:
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    I agree. Pathetic performance on the part of the Dems.

    The one bright spot is that this is still a Republican war. They've gotten everything their way with no input from the Democrats. It's gonna be hard to argue that the anti-war left lost this war. It's all on you GOP.
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #4
    Is that available on iTunes?


    To me it looks like the Dems are done wasting time and ready to play ball.

    Good job Reid and Pelosi!
     
  5. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #5
    Jesus. Could they at least have used some lube?

    Not that I didn't know it was coming but it's still incredibly disappointing/frustrating/.... really pissing me off, actually.

    "We demand and end to the war!"

    "No?"

    "Oh, ok then, nevermind."
     
  6. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #6
    Are they wanting to lose their jobs in the next election? Most people want us out of Iraq, but now the people who were voted in to get us out aren't doing it. I had actually started to hope that we would get out of there someday, but now I am not so sure.
     
  7. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #7
    Yes by tying the war spending bills instead of towards something directly tangible and of great importance to the american people to something only a democrat could love. A minimum wage increase? Very bold, feel you are getting atleast something done by attaching into to this bill. Nothing relevant, just something you want that most people don't neccessairly care for.

    Thats the beasts of couraage I imagined in the Democrats. What a joke. The Republicans are ruining the country, and the democrats have nothing but flawed logic to try to prevent it. Ohh... were going to have to pay double the tax in a decade due to our burgenouing fiscal budget, lets hike up the minimum wage so that more taxes come back to us from the poor. Ladedade dah.

    Honestly.... I really can't wait till there is a choice other than between evil and stupid.
     
  8. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #8
    Here Here!!!!
     
  9. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #9
    The "on you" part yes. But how can the new Dems on the block, who were given as clear a mandate as any in recent U.S. politics by those who elected them, make any credible claims for future hopes? This is a huge disappointment, not only with their waffling with key issues, but also defrauding and betraying their constituents.
    The "books may close" but I doubt the final chapters are yet finished with this. I've looked around trying to find some "Paul Harvey" other side of the story or something which attempts to give a rationale, but have yet to find anything which sheds much light on it.

    Again, if this holds to be true, it will be another huge erosion factor affecting those who struggle to believe in a system which seems to be very sick.
     
  10. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #10
    Its not the pork. Put a moon base bill on it see if I care.

    The president said he'll veto anything with a timeline in it. Then the dems are boohooing when they submit a bill with a timeline and it gets denied. Well duh!
     
  11. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #11
    Only to some Democrat's constituents. Many will not support a bill that weak.

    One can only hope that Reid and Pelosi have something the President does not -- a Plan B.

    But lets see how this plays out. Will the anti-war Democrats vote for this? Their grudging support was crucial to getting the previous legislation through, and they only grudgingly supported it because the leadership begged them to. If Pelosi loses their support, the bill will likely fail since Republicans can be counted on the vote against it.
     
  12. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #12
    Yeah, the Democrats are usually very inept when it comes to political infighting. The Republicans have a huge advantage over them: Republicans have no scruples stopping them, no trick too dirty to employ. Want proof? Just look at how the Repubs behaved toward the Democrats when they were in the majority, and how the Dems treat Repubs now that their positions are reversed. It's night and day. Dems, are being pussies as usual. They need to get a backbone, and more importantly some brass knuckles - total war Republican style. Hit 'em as hard as possible. There is no other way to get any respect from those thugs - you're fair to them, they just take advantage and stab you in the back.

    That said, I'm not so sure about this being a negative for the Dems, at all. I actually think this is smart tactics.

    1)Blame will not be heavy on the Dems: people know Dems don't have the votes to override Bush's veto. Blame Bush.

    2)Key point: it's all about the timetable.

    The war is lost. Everyone (with the exception of 5 guys at the White House - with Bush pacing the room, Hitler's bunker style) knows this. The present fight is not over "how to conduct the war" - we will have to withdraw sooner or later. The fight is over WHO WILL GET THE BLAME for this entire debacle. That's what this is about. Read the article I linked to in the thread I started ("Bush's secret plan for Iraq"). It's all positioning. Bush wants to say: "we were about to turn the corner on this war [corner number 5 billionth] toward an unbelievably glorious victory - and the traitorous Dems cut funds and utterly destroyed us and so we lost".

    So, how does this play out wrt. the timetable? Well, Bush has put all his chips on the "surge". The Dems SHOULD NOT DO ANYTHING that can be characterized as weakening the surge. Let the surge fail with maximum clarity, with the Dems being able to say: "Bush had total control, and failed totally". They registered their opposition to the surge (basically so they can say: "we told you so, it was a rotten idea"). "We warned you about the cliff ahead - you decided to accelerate the car - we didn't touch a thing, you steered it totally by yourself. And now we are at the bottom of the abyss, lying in the bloody, smoking wreckage."

    There is a timetable - end of September. General Petreaus will give his report on the surge, which by then would be in full strength and full swing for several months. Even Republicans warned Bush that this is his last chance, and if there is not substantial progress by the end of September, all bets are off, including substantial Republican support.

    The public will be able to see the surge effects - it will fail, that's certain. The only question is, can the military fudge numbers (which they do constantly) to lie up - if not a rosy scenario, at least some kind of glimmer of contradiction to total failure. We'll see. Regardless, it is better for the Democrats to be seen to have clean hands - let the full weight of this failure, the final surge hope fail horrifically, and let it be owned by the GWB and the Republicans. Long term, that's worth paying a small price for the temporary unhappiness of voters right now with the Dems. It'll all work out to the worst for the Republicans. If the Dems play it right for the next 2 years, they have a shot at discrediting the conservatives for generations :).

    I approve.
     
  13. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    i'm skeptical we'll be hearing a chorus of GOP mea culpas come september. instead, i think we'll hear the same thing we're hearing right now: "the surge (or whatever X is in september) is showing some progress, so we're giving it until march. but if we don't see anything by march, boy will we be mad!!!!"
     
  14. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #14
    I think there will be those who behave as you indicated. I don't think there ever will be Republicans saying "mea culpa", that was never anyone's expectation. Rather, the Repubs warned Bush that they cannot stand with him anymore vis a vis the war. Of course, there will be a hardcore group who'll go with Bush regardless. The fight is over the other group - a substantial Republican split. More importantly is how this will play for the public - the surge has failed. Now, when votes come up on the next budget, you just might have enough votes (Dems + Repubs) to override a veto - which would be politically safe, since the last hope - the surge - failed. Now all you will have is somewhere below 30% of the public who would oppose a gradual withdrawal. Game over.

    We'll see.
     
  15. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #15
    While these politicians play out their campaign strategy, we have a bunch of brave kids over there in the middle of all this crap wondering if they'll
    make it home in one piece.

    How many more troops and their families must suffer while Congress retires to the safety of their estates to observe Memorial Day with their
    own families?

    I fully expect General Petreaus to come back in September to report that
    they are making "some progress" but he needs more time and funding.

    The unfortunate truth is that we either need to send in another 200,000
    troops or get the hell out.

    It's clear that this administration is more concerned with saving face
    than they are with saving lives, so we'll just have to wait and see how the next round of double speak goes.
     
  16. Queso macrumors G4

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    #16
    You all should hope that when the asteroid hits it lands slap bang in the middle of Washington DC. It's the only way you'll ever get any change over there.

    What a joke. The entire political process in the USA is nothing more than lip service to the multitude. There is no choice.
     
  17. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #17
    We have the first pictures from yesterday's Democratic caucus:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #18
    They're slow that way.
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    The Dems are slow? The Republicans lost a war three years ago and the penny still hasn't dropped :rolleyes:
     
  20. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #20
    What war was that? The one where we kicked *ss and took names? Hey, a poorly planned rebuilding effort does not a failed war make. You guys really need to separate out the war part from the aftermath so you don't go through life confused. Seriously. Thinking like that will only result in you seeing failure in everything.
     
  21. Queso macrumors G4

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    #21
    So in your view the Iraqi war is over and the USA won?

    Not an acronym I normally use but ROFLMAO.
     
  22. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #22
    That is about as warped a view of reality as I've ever seen.

    You think we won the war? The job ain't done until the job is done. It ain't done and doesn't look like it ever will be.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Oh, but it does. It isn't over till it's over. Or do you think that those 3,400 US killed and 20,000 wounded are peacetime casualties?
    You need to take off your blinkers and see the failure all around you.
     
  24. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #24
    You know what George Bush reminds me of? The typical guy who won't stop to ask for directions. He's got us in his car, he's driving, and he's going from New York to Maine. Trouble is, we keep passing signs like "Welcome to Ohio", "Welcome to Kansas", "Welcome to "Nevada", and he still won't admit he's going the wrong direction. He keeps thinking we'll come to the proper turn that'll take us to New England.

    Omigod...he's Clark Griswald in the Oval Office...only without the humor.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Then they either work toward a veto-proof majority or they should impeach the m*****f***er. This country wants us out of Iraq! What about the last election do none of them get?
     

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