Dick Cheney says "So What?"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stevento, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #1
  2. TEG macrumors 604

    TEG

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    And??

    From all the people I know who are currently serving in Iraq, I know the surge is working. Just because 2/3 of Americans can't be bothered to pay attention doesn't mean it isn't working. It is working, and the causality reports are proof enough.

    So?

    TEG
     
  3. Frisco macrumors 68020

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    #3
    It may be working now, but it is only prolonging the inevitable--massive failure.

    Let's assume everything worked out in Iraq. It was still a huge mistake and a horrible injustice on humanity.
     
  4. stevento thread starter macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    the fact that he would just say "who cares" is appaulling
     
  5. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    #5
    He didn't say who cares? Did you watch the video?

    He also said
    .


    Just as many people supported the removal of S. Hussein as are now against it.


    How is freeing 25 million iraqis a horrible injustice on humanity? It isn't our fault they chose to continue a 7th century war.
     
  6. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

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    It's their fault? No wonder people f****** hate us so much.
     
  7. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    #7
    Who are the homicide bombers and car bombers? Americans?
     
  8. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    Freeing them to do what? Be killed by friendly fire? Starve to death? Become a statistic of war? You can't claim to have freed a people When you're substituting one injustice for another.
     
  9. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #9
    It's not our job to "free them".

    It's sunnis and shia blowing each other up. We're trying to police a civil war over there, and nothing is getting accomplished other than coalition (is there even a coalition anymore?) soliders getting injured and killed.

    The surge hasn't done ****. It's a temporary reduction in violence because we have more men there. As soon as Bush brings back the troops from the surge (which he said he was going to start doing), violence will go back up.


    Back on topic to the "So?". Like Lincoln said in the Gettysburg Address, "government of the people, by the people, for the people"

    If 2/3 of the people want us out, THEN GET THE **** OUT. It's that simple.
     
  10. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    Of course some will die in a war zone. That happens, and it is unfortunate. I am sure we have killed far fewer in 5 years than S. Hussein and his sons did yearly.
    Why would they starve to death? If they had food under S. Hussein, surely they would have more after he is gone.
    I guess things are different in Canada. I don't consider freedom to be an injustice.
     
  11. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    #11
    17 UN mandate violations and 1100 violations of the ceasefire of the Persian Gulf war and no fly zone were justification, not freeing the Iraqis. That came as a result of removing S. Hussein.
    Liberals are all about humanity. Would it be humane to leave immediately, and allow Iraq to break out into a full-scale civil war, or, worse yet, regional war?
    If the surge hasn't done anything, how is there a reduction in violence?
    2/3'rds wanted us there before the war. Should politicians legislate by opinion poll?
     
  12. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

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    #12
    Who invaded their country?
     
  13. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    What, can't answer the question? Others on here have had the courage to admit they believe the US military are terrorists.
     
  14. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    Funny, I thought the justification was that they had WMDs and they were training Al-Qaeda. But now that these have both been found out to be manufactured intelligence, you're saying it was because of UN ****. If so, then we should have let the UN deal with it. If the UN felt they needed to go to war, they would have and we would have joined the coalition. Instead, we went against the UN.

    It's already a full-scale civil war between the sunni and shiite militias. We're trying to police it, but we're getting nowhere. These two religious groups have hated each other for hundreds of years. There's nothing we can do to stop that hate.

    I mean the surge hasn't done anything long term. Yes, there's a reduction in violence. But it's only temporary while we have extra troops there. Bush said he was going to start bringing home the "surged" troops. Once they leave violence will end up going back up.

    On the basis of false intelligence and lies to the people.
    Seeing that they're serving the people, they should listen to them. What they should do is put a question on the ballot, and if a majority vote yes to withdraw, then we should start the withdrawal process.
     
  15. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    What do you think the UN mandates cover?

    Manufactured intelligence? Funny, the bipartisan commission has stated that while intelligence may have been steered in some cases, there was no evidence of manufactured evidence. I guess the lefty blogs are a little behind.
    I guess you missed the oil-for-food scandal, and K. Annan's corruption.
    How do you know the surge hasn't done anything long-term? Do you have a time-machine?
    Not sure you know what a full-scale civil war is.
    Most of America was in favor of the war. You just said the President and legislators should make decisions by opinion poll. They did.
     
  16. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

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    Funny, you didn't answer my question either.
     
  17. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    It doesn't matter. It's the UN's problem and we shouldn't be acting on them unless they ask us to.

    And now that most of America is against it, they need to get the hell out of there.

    Additionally, I highly doubt the majority of America would have been in favor of war if Bush & co wouldn't have flat out lied to the American people about Iraq having WMDs (they didn't have any) and Iraq training Al Qaeda (the pentagon report last week found no connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda).
     
  18. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #18
    That's not statistically accurate. If you compare the number of deaths during Saddam's rule against estimates of the war's death toll, Saddam is easily left behind on an annual basis. No one is insinuating he was a saint, but the state of Iraq currently is almost unanimously agreed to be worse than it was under the fist of Saddam. Unemployment, malnutrition, and poverty are rampant.

    This isn't an apology for Saddam, but it does serve as an example of how easily things can go awry when a situation isn't properly understood and is rushed into headlong, even if we assume the best of intentions.

    I like how you threw my nationality in there. I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but I've done nothing but engage you on the facts in honest debate, without a glib, condescending or insulting remark. I'd appreciate if you could respectfully do the same.
     
  19. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    #19
    They fired on our aircraft. Seems we should leave the UN then.

    The Clintons, J. Kerry, T. Kennedy, J. Edwards, etc, all said S. Hussein had WMD.

    H. Waxman.
    http://www.house.gov/waxman/news_files/news_statements_res_iraq_10_10_02.htm

    If didn't find no connection. It found no collaborative relationship.
     
  20. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    I didn't realize being called a Canadian is an insult. I am proud of my country.
     
  21. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    The fact that I am deeply proud to be Canadian is specifically why your comment "I guess things are different in Canada. I don't consider freedom to be an injustice." and it's insinuations were insulting.

    I addressed your debate on a factual level, please see my previous post and respond in kind.
     
  22. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #22
    Those people were also fed insane quantities of intentionally falsified "evidence" of WMD. Colin Powell was forced to lie, Rice, Cheney and Bush chose to lie.

    Something tells me most Americans are against the war because they were lied to.

    How did bush so inelegantly put it? You can fool me twice....
     
  23. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    On PRI this afternoon, they were talking about how to pull out of Iraq- for real. Experts are saying that it would take at least two years to completely pull out. Even if the US decided to pull out and leave a non-combat force to advise the iraqis, they're talking 10-20k personnel. Beyond that, there would still need to be a small strike force to handle any skirmishes. They mentioned that both Clinton and Obama are in agreement on this.

    See "Candidates on devising an exit strategy" PRI's The World

    So American's will be there for the next 100 years whether McCain is president or not. How the US got into Iraq doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is how to get out-- correctly.

    Cheney saying "so what" to that question is a little curt. But seriously, what else would you have him say? "Sorry." At this point in the game the fact that 2/3 of Americans are tired of the Iraq war matters little. 2/3 of Americans follow American Idol more closely than the goings on overseas.

    You're Canadian? I always knew you were. When did you "come out"? ;) :D

    BTW, my grandpa was from New Brunswick.
     
  24. stevegmu macrumors regular

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    #24
    I didn't really see much in the way of facts.

    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

    http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm
     
  25. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #25
    More from the bottomless pit of bitterness and obfuscation. The Republicans are going to lose this election, and most of them probably even know why. Maybe one of them should explain it to Dick.
     

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