did bush politicking enable the london bombings?

zimv20

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from a recent abcnews article about the london bombings:
Officials tell ABC News the London bombers have been connected to an al Qaeda plot planned two years ago in the Pakistani city of Lahore.

The laptop computer of Naeem Noor Khan, a captured al Qaeda leader, contained plans for a coordinated series of attacks on the London subway system, as well as on financial buildings in both New York and Washington.

[...]

At the time, authorities thought they had foiled the London subway plot by arresting more than a dozen young Britons of Pakistani descent last August in Luton, a city known for its ties to terrorism.

"For some time, the locus of terrorism in Britain has been around the Luton area and in some of the northern cities," said Michael Clark, professor of defense at King's College in London.

Security officials tell ABC News they have discovered links between the eldest of the London bombers, Mohammed Sadique Khan, 30, and the original group in Luton. Officials also believe it was not a coincidence the subway bombers all met at the Luton train station last week.

"It is very likely this group was activated last year after the other group was arrested," Debat said.
there was prior intelligence from the laptop of Naeem Noor Khan. where have we seen that name before? he was the turned AQ leader outed by DHS during the democratic convention to justify an orange terror alert.
The effort by U.S. officials to justify raising the terror alert level last week may have shut down an important source of information that has already led to a series of al Qaeda arrests, Pakistani intelligence sources have said.

Until U.S. officials leaked the arrest of Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan to reporters, Pakistan had been using him in a sting operation to track down al Qaeda operatives around the world, the sources said.

[...]

Law enforcement sources said some of the intelligence gleaned from the arrests of Khan and others gave phone numbers and e-mail addresses that the FBI and other agencies were using to try to track down any al Qaeda operatives in the United States.

Then on Friday, after Khan's name was revealed, government sources told CNN that counterterrorism officials had seen a drop in intercepted communications among suspected terrorists.
at the same time, the daily news was reporting:
A captured Al Qaeda computer whiz was E-mailing his comrades as part of a sting operation to nab other top terrorists when U.S. officials blew his cover, sources said yesterday.
Within hours of Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan's name being publicized Monday, British police launched lightning raids that netted a dozen suspected Al Qaeda terrorists, including one who was nabbed after a high-speed car chase.

[...]

Now British and Pakistani intelligence officials are furious with the Americans for unmasking their super spy - apparently to justify the orange alert - and for naming the other captured terrorist suspects.

[...]

"The network is still not finished," Hayyat said. It "remains a potent threat to Pakistan, and to civilized humanity."

"It makes our job harder," a British security source said. British officials denied press reports yesterday that several suspects were able to escape the net.
so, because khan's name was leaked, the brits were able to round up only part of the luten terror network suspected at that time of planning london tube bombings. and less than a year later, the bombings go ahead.

nice one.
 

Thanatoast

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Dec 3, 2002
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it gets tiring to read about the sheer volume of ****-ups bush has made in his war on terror.

rather than addressing the undelying causes he has decided that declaring a losing war would be more politically expedient.

not to mention his complete disregard for non-fetal human life.

chalk up another 52 on the innocent side.
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Dec 21, 2002
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Its amazing everything that we have gotton with 5 years of Bush. Worse President since Jimmy Carter in my view. Clinton & the republicans had us sitting pretty well, George and the republicans have gotton us into a stupid war, thrown away billions, made all americans terrorist with its patriot act,did nothing on the border and the list just goes on and on. Pathetic Sorry bunch. Its hard for me to find one person in his administration that i like.
 

mactastic

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Worst. President. Ever.

Jeopardizing the national security of our country for political gain is inexcusable. I can guarantee you if Clinton had done anything like this his impeachment would have succeeded. And justifiably so.

Yet we have a silent right-wing punditocracy, the same people who went after Clinton with a vengance because 'it matters that you tell the truth' could care less that Rove and/or Novak may have committed treason and then lied about it to cover their tracks.

And now evidence that the Bush administration justified a political use of the terrorist threat assesment to try and suck some wind out of their enemy's sails.

What does the right expect to happen the next time the Dems are in power? My only conclusion is that they feel they don't have to fear that prospect...
 

IJ Reilly

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Jul 16, 2002
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I don't mean to divert a good rant here, but I've got to get this off my chest. Why do all, and I mean all, of the U.S. news services insist on calling it the "London subway?" I mean, how many seconds does anyone need to spend in London to know the difference between a subway and the Underground? About eight?
 

Xtremehkr

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Jul 4, 2004
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'Rat? what will it take to become apparent to you that terrorism is a useful tool for this administration politically?
 

LethalWolfe

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IJ Reilly said:
I don't mean to divert a good rant here, but I've got to get this off my chest. Why do all, and I mean all, of the U.S. news services insist on calling it the "London subway?" I mean, how many seconds does anyone need to spend in London to know the difference between a subway and the Underground? About eight?
They do it for all the American's that haven't spent at least 8 seconds in London? :eek: :p

I'm sure London sport casters use the term "football" when talking about the sport/players in the US even though we call it soccer not football.

We call it a subway, they call it the Underground or tube. We call it soccer they call it football. We call it football they call it american football. Chip, crisp. Flat, apartment. Bloody hell, jesus f'in' christ.

Whatever... ;)


Lethal
 

IJ Reilly

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LethalWolfe said:
They do it for all the American's that haven't spent at least 8 seconds in London? :eek: :p
Well, the official name of the system is "The London Underground" so to call it something else, is, well, to call it something else. In Paris it's the "Metro," in Chicago it's the "El," in San Francisco it's BART, and in New York (and only New York, AFAIK) is it called "the Subway."

So no, I don't think it's at all like football. I think it's a lot like carelessness.
 

xsedrinam

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Oct 21, 2004
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IMO, U.S. foreign policy has been ineffective and largely naive back to (some brilliance) in the paradoxical administration of Nixon. I'm still not over the fact that Madeleine Albright was actually appointed Secretary of State and served under one of the brightest, yet most naive presidents in modern U.S. history. Could anyone believe that Middle Eastern and Muslim countries did anything but laugh up their sleeves at sending a woman to negiotiate within a cultural setting not the least bit interested in being converted to Western thought? Once again, they were insulted and patronized by a culturally insensitive and presumptuous U.S. agenda. That was the strategy of a Rhodes Scholar back then. Unbelieveable. No, 'Bush whacking' and blaming W for bombs going off all over the planet is too short-sighted. U.S. naiveté in foreign policy has been at it for decades.
X
 

skunk

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xsedrinam said:
IMO, U.S. foreign policy has been ineffective and largely naive back to (some brilliance) in the paradoxical administration of Nixon. I'm still not over the fact that Madeleine Albright was actually appointed Secretary of State and served under one of the brightest, yet most naive presidents in modern U.S. history. Could anyone believe that Middle Eastern and Muslim countries did anything but laugh up their sleeves at sending a woman to negiotiate within a cultural setting not the least bit interested in being converted to Western thought? Once again, they were insulted and patronized by a culturally insensitive and presumptuous U.S. agenda. That was the strategy of a Rhodes Scholar back then. Unbelieveable. No, 'Bush whacking' and blaming W for bombs going off all over the planet is too short-sighted. U.S. naiveté in foreign policy has been at it for decades.
So the root cause of ME terrorism is Madeleine Albright? I never thought of that. Perhaps she should have worn a fake beard.
 

zimv20

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IJ Reilly said:
in Chicago it's the "El,"
technically, only the elevated part is the El (or "L"). the part that goes underground is called... the subway.

and the part of the Brown Line aka Ravenswood Line that runs at ground level is typically referred to as, "the part of the Brown line that runs on the ground."

clever lot, us.
 

skunk

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zimv20 said:
technically, only the elevated part is the El (or "L"). the part that goes underground is called... the subway.

and the part of the Brown Line aka Ravenswood Line that runs at ground level is typically referred to as, "the part of the Brown line that runs on the ground."

clever lot, us.
The Underground is called the Underground even when it's Overground.
 

mactastic

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skunk said:
If you don't like it, stop watching. :cool:
Well it's the smell more than the visual effect that I don't like. ;)

As for Ms. Albright being the root cause of terrorism, I have to disagree. I thought it was brilliant of Clinton to use her. She was the iron fist in the velvet glove, the grandmotherly type who could hand your ass to you with a smile on her face.

Provoking a response because you don't like women is far less justifiable to the world than responding because you've been bombed. If someone wants to step onto the world stage and say their grievance with the US is that they were forced into the undignified position of negotiating with a woman, let them. I think the world has moved forward enough that a complaint like that would simply expose you for the person that you are.

Besides, if Albright was a problem, how much more of a problem is Rice? I mean, she's a black woman! The former colonial powers must be horrified and humiliated to have to negotiate with her. I'd expect we'll see them attacking us soon too, no?
 

IJ Reilly

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zimv20 said:
technically, only the elevated part is the El (or "L"). the part that goes underground is called... the subway.
When I lived in Chicago, which admittedly wasn't for very long, I never heard any part of the system called "the subway." Has that changed, or did I miss out on something? In fact the only part of the system that I can recall running through a tunnel was a short stretch of the State Street line south of the Loop. But it was a long time ago... in fact my strongest memory of the Chicago El is the conductor's mumbled incantations of the stops, followed by "nosmokinondatrains." It was so consistant, I figured they all must have gone to a special school for it.
 

zimv20

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IJ Reilly said:
I never heard any part of the system called "the subway." Has that changed, or did I miss out on something? In fact the only part of the system that I can recall running through a tunnel was a short stretch of the State Street line south of the Loop.
the red line and blue line (which runs to o'hare) have long stretches where they're underground. some people do indeed call it the el, even when it's underground, but a lot of people do make the el/subway distinction.

in the loop, there are two lines underground and 4 above ground. i've heard people say, "take the el or the subway?" (typical response: "**** it, i'm grabbing a cab" :)

fwiw, i grew up near chicago and have been living in the city itself since 1990.
 

xsedrinam

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Oct 21, 2004
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mactastic said:
Well it's the smell more than the visual effect that I don't like. ;)

As for Ms. Albright being the root cause of terrorism, I have to disagree. I thought it was brilliant of Clinton to use her. She was the iron fist in the velvet glove, the grandmotherly type who could hand your ass to you with a smile on her face.

Provoking a response because you don't like women is far less justifiable to the world than responding because you've been bombed. If someone wants to step onto the world stage and say their grievance with the US is that they were forced into the undignified position of negotiating with a woman, let them. I think the world has moved forward enough that a complaint like that would simply expose you for the person that you are.

Besides, if Albright was a problem, how much more of a problem is Rice? I mean, she's a black woman! The former colonial powers must be horrified and humiliated to have to negotiate with her. I'd expect we'll see them attacking us soon too, no?
This kind of "blow off" response actually makes my point. We don't get it. Cross cultural communcation and sensitivity and HOW we negotiate send indirect messages that we don't get it. Bombs get attention. They continue to be a statement where a vacuum of communication exists. It has nothing to do with my or anyone else's personal, Western appreciation for the empowerment of womanhood, with which I have no issue. It's about foreign policy and the U.S's continuing to not hear while ridiculing any other voice which happens to disagree with her.
X
 

superbovine

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IJ Reilly said:
Well, the official name of the system is "The London Underground" so to call it something else, is, well, to call it something else. In Paris it's the "Metro," in Chicago it's the "El," in San Francisco it's BART, and in New York (and only New York, AFAIK) is it called "the Subway."

So no, I don't think it's at all like football. I think it's a lot like carelessness.

most american newspaper write/edit their papers to produce reading at around a 4th-6th grade level. Ever wonder if you stop 10 American on the street and ask them to point to London on a map, and see if they could find it? In other words, the average joe here couldn't tell you what is a London Underground, tube, BART, or AFAIK etc. is.
 

dejo

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superbovine said:
Ever wonder if you stop 10 American on the street and ask them to point to London on a map, and see if they could find it?
Oh! Oh! I know where it is! It's about midway between Toronto and Detroit... ;)
 

mactastic

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xsedrinam said:
This kind of "blow off" response actually makes my point. We don't get it. Cross cultural communcation and sensitivity and HOW we negotiate send indirect messages that we don't get it. Bombs get attention. They continue to be a statement where a vacuum of communication exists. It has nothing to do with my or anyone else's personal, Western appreciation for the empowerment of womanhood, with which I have no issue. It's about foreign policy and the U.S's continuing to not hear while ridiculing any other voice which happens to disagree with her.
X
I don't feel like I was 'blowing you off'. Not sure where you get that impression. Did I not address your argument in a cogent manner? Or is anyone who holds a different opinion 'blowing you off' when they disagree?

Was it an improvement when Powell was SecState? Did our credibility amongst Muslims go up because he has a penis? And are you saying it's better to use bombs to negotiate than a woman?

:confused: