Did Obama just hurt the Democrats some more?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #1
    With his UN vote?

    The Jewish community is a huge Democratic coalition, especially in S. Florida and he just gave them a big FU. Will this haunt the Dems in 2020? For a President that at times seems extremely politically savvy, sometimes he just lets ideology take over and it kills his party.
     
  2. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    You analysis and concern leaves a lot to be desired. How about expressing some jugement about should we be pandering to Israel or expecting them to act responsibly in the region? I vote for the latter. And maybe some observation that Isreal is hated by all of their neighbors for a reason. And I am really disappointed in the Jewish population in this country if their approval is solely based on blind support of Israel right or wrong. Common sense must be applied. My hope is that the young people in Israel finally get fatiqued with decade upon decade of war.
     
  3. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #3
    Nah. There is, indeed, an enormous lobbyist effort for hard-line Israel support; but voting support? I think there are as many American Jewish voters interested in creating a long-term peace in the Mideast as there are voters interested in them continuing to carve out more lands from their neighbors. Moreover, Israel is just not the most important topic for Americans in general. I mean, it could certainly rise up with further warfare in the region, but right now? The Democratic party has much bigger issues to deal with.
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #4
    You mean his cowardly non-vote? Nothing shows the US has no balls like abstaining from an important vote like this. If you want to be pro-Palestinian at least have the balls to vote it. Hopefully the Dems take a another hit from this unpopular move.
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #5
    So you think he should have voted in favour of the resolution. I agree.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
    Look at their neighbors, do you really want their ideologies to win out in that area? Perhaps we could have another good ol Islamic building gay toss to celebrate?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 26, 2016 ---
    Actually I think he should have voted no and deferred the decision since his party took a shalacking in the election, but overall I'd take a vote of yes over a cowardly vote of nothing.
     
  7. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #7
    Er, as opposed to Israel's periodic "mowing of the lawn"? Man, you've gotta stop treating this as good guys vs. bad guys. Morality kinda disappeared in that region decades ago...
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    What? You mean gaining seats in the house and senate? Some shalacking...
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #9
    Pretend you are a woman, would you rather live in Saudi Arabia or Israel?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 26, 2016 ---
    Who controls all three branches?
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Depends on your religion.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
    Please explain, Israel often ranks high in women equality evaluations. SA... yeh try not to get raped yo.
     
  12. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #12
    Hmm. I believe all citizens of Israel are currently subject to conscription; and, of course, conscription into Israel's army means you're going to take part in that semi-annual "mowing of the lawn" ceremony.

    Honestly, I'm kinda thinking I could maintain a more moral stance on the Saudi Arabian side... :(
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    What a joke, Israel gives women space in their military, SA says women driving is morally wrong and there are campaigns to try to get them driving:

    Keep those women focused on simple things, wouldn't want to confuse them.

    This isn't even bringing up the rape cases where the victim is prosecuted.
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    I read there were 14 votes for the resolution in the Security Council with the U.S. abstaining. I frankly think it makes us look ridiculous when the rest of the world (as represented by the SC) agrees that a two state solution is the best approach, with just the U.S. acting like Israel's lap dog.

    So I agree with the decision not to veto the resolution, and wish we had the balls to cast a yes vote.
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #15
    And if you're a Palestinian in Israel? Especially if you're one who lives in the West Bank or Gaza?
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    Better to be a Palestinian in Israel than a Jewish woman in SA. There are Muslim women serving in government in Israel and I bet they can drive/wear what they want as well unless their husband is trying to oppress them (likely).

    If we are going to bring Palestinians into the discussion though I believe they are still paying wages to anyone who can kill an Israeli.
     
  17. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #17
    I am an American Jew. The American comes first. I want or government to concentrate on the US. If as an American Jew you are more concerned with Israel than the US, maybe it's time to take advantage of the Law of Return, and move to the country you love most. I get annoyed at a cousin, who left Israel in the '60s and chose to come here... And is now overly concerned with this particular political conundrum.
     
  18. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #18
    Meh.

    The resolution doesn't have much teeth, in that it merely describes Israel’s settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as "illegal and an obstacle to peace with the Palestinians."

    The reality on the ground hasn't changed, and while this resolution might give a movement a staunch the settlements in the Hague a bit of tailwind, it really doesn't matter much.

    And, this proves the ultimate problem with Obama's centrism. He didn't win any favors from the far-right by abstaining, and he didn't gain any ground from the left by allowing the vote to go forward.

    As for the vote, comparing Saudi Arabia and Israel is unhelpful. Yes, I agree that Saudi Arabia is a corrupt regime that practices a dangerous kind of Islam, but that hardly makes Israel a good guy when it comes to the Palestinians.

    The Israelis treat the Palestinians as second-class people in their own lands and have repeatedly rejected peace accords and seized lands in direct violation of international law.
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    Do you agree with what the resolution says? Seizing your neighbors land for yourself is a well established standard as a basis for war. Israel is upset because they were called on their illegal actions (illegal according to international law), to bad. I'm not a philosophical supporter of might makes right. This is one of Israel's problems in general:

    Netanyahu on UN Settlement Vote: Israel will not turn the other cheek.

    I wonder what percentage of Israeli's he speaks for?
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    The US votes no and it vetoes the entire thing, further isolating the US on the national stage.

    The international community is crystal clear here, Israel has been violating international law with settlements for decades.
     
  21. alex2792 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I don't see any realistic way that there can be a two state solution when exterminating all Jews and destroying Israel is an integral part of Palestinian Authority's political platform. If the Palestinians are serious about peace they need to stop electing terrorist groups as their representatives first.
     
  22. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #22
    Op-Ed editor for the Jerusalem Post details how Obama is arguably the most pro-Israel president of all-time. I only post the included graphs, read the piece for the detailed information.


    ABSTAINING FROM HISTORY: HERE’S ALL THE UN RESOLUTIONS ON ISRAEL THE US ABSTAINED ON

    https://sethfrantzman.com/2016/12/2...un-resolutions-on-israel-the-us-abstained-on/

    screen-shot-2016-12-24-at-6-02-44-pm.png
    Abstentions by administration (Seth J. Frantzman)


    screen-shot-2016-12-24-at-5-47-05-pm.png
    A chart of most of the condemnations of Israel by US administration* (*There may be some undercounting for pre-Carter administrations)​
     
  23. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #23
    Donald Trump doesn't care what the international community is saying, he signalled that he was behind Israel and after January you can expect the international community to be put back in check. Palestinians want nothing besides to wipe Israel off the map. Israel is the only country in the area with half a brain.
     
  24. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #24
    I seem to recall a certain German statesman back in the 30’s who said his people needed more living space. I believe the pursuit of that didn’t go well. Wish I could recall his name. Might be pertinent. Or not.
     
  25. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #25
    You know, when you spout this kind of ******** it's not worth even trying to debate with you.
     

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